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[Music]

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you're in the para cast the gold

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standard of paranormal radio and now

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here's gene Steinberg

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[Music]

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this week I'm the para cast we welcome

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back a friend of the show and he's no

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stranger to you if you already are

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regulars in the forms that form dr. para

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cast com best because he is one of our

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moderators but he also hosts his own

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radio show called dark matters he's the

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one the only Don Ecker Don welcome back

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to the power cast oh thank you so much

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gene for the invitation I appreciate it

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this week we're going to focus on first

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of all the fakers the frauds in UFO

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research these are the people who

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dragged the entire field down the people

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who make you think that UFO research is

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toxic don't do it don't get involved

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because you have all the crazies and the

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confused ones how did you get involved

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in exposing people of this nature well

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of course when when I first became

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involved in the field this was certainly

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not in the area that I wanted to go but

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going all the way back practically to

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the beginning after I was on board UFO

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magazine my wife Vicki and I had gone

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down to San Diego for some conference or

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something that was going on down there

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and I'm talking about back in the very

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early days around 1990 or there abouts

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and while we were down there somebody

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that we knew introduced me to a fellow

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that I was told it had been a former Air

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Force pilot and not only a pilot but had

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been in a squadron back in the early 50s

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based out of Utah and had been tasked in

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this quote unquote secret squadron with

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being passed to chase and photograph

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UFOs when they popped up I found the

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store

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interesting but what was even more

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interesting about the story was that

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this guy was featured in Timothy goods

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massive book above top secret now his

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name when it was presented to me was guy

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Kirkwood so I chatted with him for a

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while very charming man very well-spoken

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he boy could he spin a yarn I started

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thinking about this would make a

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fascinating article for UFO magazine

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because primarily that's what we were

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doing so I asked guy if he would be

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interested in my doing several

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interviews with them and doing it for

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the magazine and he was very amenable to

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that but then I asked him for something

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that apparently in his book anyway was

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an oops I asked to see a copy of his

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military discharge papers I wanted to

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prove to myself that this guy in fact

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was a pilot and to make a long story

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short he gave me one of those oh yeah

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I'll tell you what Don I've gotta find

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him I don't know quite where they're at

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right now but hey I'll get back to you

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so I gave him my phone number well times

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started to go on and I heard nothing

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from him and of course there was a lot

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going on and on my plate at that time

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Jean I probably after a few weeks or a

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couple of months forgot about it

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well then about a year went by and

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suddenly there was a new television

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program coming on and and back in those

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days it seemed like there was something

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being broadcast each week on the UFO

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topic I mean encounters and sightings

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ended up coming out there was a show

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about unsolved mysteries that was on a

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lot of stuff happening not to mention

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the periodic Larry King specials that

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would come on talking about the subject

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and my phone started literally ringing

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off the hook

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and I had a number of people call me one

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guy in particular whom I recall a fellow

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by the name of Fritz cron and Fritz

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asked me if I had seen this program this

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new program that had just come on and

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among some of the people on it were

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Linda Howe and this guy that I had met

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the year previously guy Kirkwood and I

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said yeah fritz I did why he said well

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you know and he he was from Austria

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spoke with a very heavy accent like a

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swartz yeah I'll be back

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he's a hawkster a fraudster and and he

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proceeded to give me a rundown of all

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this information now once again hey you

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know ok I'm going on just what this guy

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is telling me is this true if it was

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true it kind of bothered me in a big way

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because look when I entered this field I

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came from a law enforcement background I

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had been a policeman and when I got

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involved in this field I determined at

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that time as a matter of fact I made a

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promise to myself that anything I got

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involved with I would treat it like any

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other case that I had ever been involved

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with regardless of whether it was

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robbery murder I mean whatever the same

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techniques you are a policeman you

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investigate you have a UFO case you

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investigate you don't prejudge you try

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to find out what happened try to find

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out what the facts are absolutely so I

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started doing some research and I

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started calling up a lot of people that

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were around back in the 1960s in that

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era and there were still a lot of people

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out there and one of the people that I

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ended up getting in touch with was a

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fellow by the name of Don Dornan now

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Dornan had been a light I believe it was

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either life or look I it might have been

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look magazine he was a photographer that

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back in the 60s they were doing some

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muckraking stuff that they would feature

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in the magazine

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any rate he got put onto this fellow's

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trail guy Kirkwood because he was

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involved with another fellow that was

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apparently some type of scam stir make a

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long story short he really gave me a lot

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of information and it turned out with my

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investigation that I could never find

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any and I mean no record of Kirkwood

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ever having served in the Air Force much

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less being a pilot but what I did turn

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up were a number of names that this guy

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had been used in the past I did turn up

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some criminal charges that had been

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filed on this guy some of the jobs that

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he actually did hold were jobs like a

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Fuller Brush salesman he had been a

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dance instructor at one point for the

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Arthur Murray dance studios and some

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other odds and ends and make a long

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story short this guy was a total phony

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so I had my article all ready to go now

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one thing that I've always tried to do I

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never tried in all those years to

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blindside anybody so I called guy up and

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I told him I said look I have some stuff

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I want you to see so you know let's get

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together and I'm gonna show you this

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article I'm gonna run well he ended up

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coming out to our offices we sat down

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and I gave him all the proofs including

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photographs and everything else I had

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dug up and he sat there and he read it

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and I said well guy that's what's going

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in our in our next edition of the

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magazine now I said is there anything

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here that you want to tell me that would

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be mitigating circumstances in anything

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and basically nothing he totally crapped

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out and I said well you've been totally

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crapped out what do you mean he had no

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answer he had absolutely no answer he

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was just totally he sat there like a kid

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in essence that had been cop stealing

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cookies out of the cookie jar with

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nothing to say and I said now you are

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still maintaining you have a dd-214

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now would if you can provide that I said

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look I'll include it and he said all

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right I'll get it well of course he

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never did

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now we ran that okay you know at the

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time was a fairly big expose because he

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was basically breaking back into the

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field I'll tell you what we'll get into

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more of his breaking back into the field

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until confronted by the chief

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investigator Don Ecker want to remind

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you that the theme for the power cast is

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provided to us by blue sky music they do

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themes from movies television and

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various media their websites located at

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blue sky music.com that's spelled with a

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you know either be lu sky music calm be

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lu sky music calm the co-host is Chris

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O'Brien I'm gene Steinberg you're in the

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para cast neighbors if you ever hosted

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an online meeting you know how difficult

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it is to get those meetings started it's

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goes wrong that's why you need the

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and enter promo code podcast have you

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been sitting on a few great domain name

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ideas but haven't locked them in for

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yourself good now you can buy them

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through the number one domain name

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registrar namecheap.com as voted by the

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top tech blog life hacker just like the

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name says you can buy domains cheap as

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with Whois guard our special privacy

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you know it's time to grab those domain

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namecheap.com go now namecheap.com again

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the Congressional Budget Office sounds

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the alarm

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this time warns of greek-style US debt

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crises you heard me right the GAO is

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drawing a parallel between the US

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economy its debt and the current Greek

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economic

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down with the debt-to-gdp chart climbing

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into unfamiliar territory the drawing

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budget deficit will rise to

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unsupportable levels hi this is Ted

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Anderson the federal debt and risk of

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financial crises document the CBO has

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published is a must read for every

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American

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covering the risk of continued deficit

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spending coupled with an aging

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population and the rising interest rates

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spell economic disaster it's imperative

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that you get a copy of this document and

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806-853-9949 flushes environmental

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and chemicals so it detoxifies heavy

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metals including mercury lead and

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cadmium Zeo King zeolite helps boost

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your immune system allowing your body to

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poisoning for centuries the silver has

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294
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hear from you if you have a comment or

295
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question about the pair cast send it to

296
00:14:30,800 --> 00:14:27,930
news at Lapera cast calm that's news at

297
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Lapera cast calm and don't forget to

298
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visit our famous pair cast community

299
00:14:39,439 --> 00:14:36,570
forums at forum dot Lapera cast calm get

300
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in on all the action at forum dot appear

301
00:14:47,570 --> 00:14:45,380
we are back with Don Ecker he's a

302
00:14:49,970 --> 00:14:47,580
moderator on the power cast forums

303
00:14:53,210 --> 00:14:49,980
longtime writer former publisher with

304
00:14:55,519 --> 00:14:53,220
his wife Vicky of UFO magazine has the

305
00:14:57,769 --> 00:14:55,529
dark matters radio show and lots more

306
00:15:00,019 --> 00:14:57,779
going on even though he retired from the

307
00:15:01,760 --> 00:15:00,029
field he can't give it up so now we

308
00:15:05,060 --> 00:15:01,770
confront the fraudster

309
00:15:07,700 --> 00:15:05,070
head-on he never got you those documents

310
00:15:10,910 --> 00:15:07,710
did he no the documents never came but

311
00:15:14,930 --> 00:15:10,920
there's more okay this this is part and

312
00:15:16,760 --> 00:15:14,940
parcel of what makes this field if in

313
00:15:20,480 --> 00:15:16,770
fact that's what it is and I'm talking

314
00:15:23,690 --> 00:15:20,490
about UFOs / paranormal the mess the

315
00:15:26,720 --> 00:15:23,700
holy mess that it really is about Oh a

316
00:15:29,360 --> 00:15:26,730
year maybe two years past and of course

317
00:15:33,050 --> 00:15:29,370
we were involved with a tremendous

318
00:15:37,310 --> 00:15:33,060
amount of things with UFO magazine and

319
00:15:40,700 --> 00:15:37,320
at that time my first radio program UFOs

320
00:15:43,460 --> 00:15:40,710
tonight which aired for almost six years

321
00:15:45,610 --> 00:15:43,470
on the cable radio network I was doing

322
00:15:49,100 --> 00:15:45,620
that once a week I was interviewing

323
00:15:51,290 --> 00:15:49,110
people from not only in the UFO field

324
00:15:52,940 --> 00:15:51,300
but we we ended up interviewing

325
00:15:55,160 --> 00:15:52,950
everything from literally

326
00:15:57,829 --> 00:15:55,170
academy-award-winning Hollow Hollywood

327
00:16:00,560 --> 00:15:57,839
producers like Robert Wise The Day the

328
00:16:03,079 --> 00:16:00,570
Earth Stood Still you know the sand

329
00:16:05,750 --> 00:16:03,089
pebbles I mean of course he also did the

330
00:16:06,260 --> 00:16:05,760
sound of music and he was a believer in

331
00:16:08,780 --> 00:16:06,270
UFOs

332
00:16:11,449 --> 00:16:08,790
don't forget West Side Story absolutely

333
00:16:13,550 --> 00:16:11,459
and Star Trek the motion picture yes

334
00:16:15,740 --> 00:16:13,560
before they had the Wrath of Khan

335
00:16:18,410 --> 00:16:15,750
they had Star Trek the motion picture

336
00:16:20,540 --> 00:16:18,420
can you imagine so I mean these were the

337
00:16:24,079 --> 00:16:20,550
kind of people that periodically would

338
00:16:27,110 --> 00:16:24,089
pop up on UFOs tonight I'm sitting in my

339
00:16:29,570 --> 00:16:27,120
office one day and working you know like

340
00:16:32,000 --> 00:16:29,580
like we did every day and the phone rang

341
00:16:34,640 --> 00:16:32,010
I answered it and it was somebody from

342
00:16:37,640 --> 00:16:34,650
the local and when I say local I'm

343
00:16:38,990 --> 00:16:37,650
talking about the Los Angeles mutual UFO

344
00:16:41,600 --> 00:16:39,000
network

345
00:16:43,250 --> 00:16:41,610
I said yeah what what can I do for you

346
00:16:45,949 --> 00:16:43,260
and they did you hear who they're

347
00:16:47,540 --> 00:16:45,959
bringing in and I said what are you

348
00:16:49,579 --> 00:16:47,550
talking about well on our monthly

349
00:16:52,790 --> 00:16:49,589
meeting and they have usually have

350
00:16:54,170 --> 00:16:52,800
guests every week and I said well no I

351
00:16:55,680 --> 00:16:54,180
haven't really been paying attention

352
00:16:58,560 --> 00:16:55,690
hope well

353
00:17:01,110 --> 00:16:58,570
guy Kirkwood and I said really what's he

354
00:17:04,110 --> 00:17:01,120
gonna be talking about well his days as

355
00:17:07,860 --> 00:17:04,120
a jet interceptor pilot and I said oh

356
00:17:10,170 --> 00:17:07,870
boy so I called up the head of MUFON at

357
00:17:13,170 --> 00:17:10,180
that time and I'm not gonna mention his

358
00:17:15,179 --> 00:17:13,180
name because he has since left moved out

359
00:17:17,340 --> 00:17:15,189
of the area as a matter of fact is

360
00:17:20,160 --> 00:17:17,350
currently living back in the southeast

361
00:17:24,020 --> 00:17:20,170
coast of the US and I talked to this

362
00:17:27,929 --> 00:17:24,030
fellow and I said are you aware of the

363
00:17:30,780 --> 00:17:27,939
expose that I did and he said yeah Don I

364
00:17:33,510 --> 00:17:30,790
am and I said and you guys are having

365
00:17:36,450 --> 00:17:33,520
this fellow come in to talk to your

366
00:17:39,600 --> 00:17:36,460
members and he said yeah and I said why

367
00:17:42,650 --> 00:17:39,610
fought MUFON always prided itself and

368
00:17:46,440 --> 00:17:42,660
built itself as a scientifically minded

369
00:17:49,350 --> 00:17:46,450
enterprise well here's the problem gene

370
00:17:52,700 --> 00:17:49,360
it breaks down now into what are we

371
00:17:55,830 --> 00:17:52,710
doing are we doing honest research

372
00:18:00,600 --> 00:17:55,840
legitimate research because we want to

373
00:18:03,600 --> 00:18:00,610
come to a uninformed conclusion or is

374
00:18:05,700 --> 00:18:03,610
this simply entertainment and there

375
00:18:09,180 --> 00:18:05,710
seems to be a lot of people out there

376
00:18:13,190 --> 00:18:09,190
that simply regard this as entertainment

377
00:18:17,400 --> 00:18:13,200
and nothing more and until that mindset

378
00:18:20,600 --> 00:18:17,410
changes anybody that has any idea that

379
00:18:23,390 --> 00:18:20,610
at some point mainstream science and

380
00:18:26,370 --> 00:18:23,400
technology will ever take this subject

381
00:18:28,470 --> 00:18:26,380
seriously are simply fooling themselves

382
00:18:30,390 --> 00:18:28,480
well we should look at the fact that

383
00:18:32,400 --> 00:18:30,400
there are questions about a lot of

384
00:18:34,380 --> 00:18:32,410
people in the UFO field and what I

385
00:18:36,720 --> 00:18:34,390
mentioned to you before we got on and

386
00:18:40,740 --> 00:18:36,730
before we get to the pace to resistance

387
00:18:44,670 --> 00:18:40,750
we go back to this so-called TV producer

388
00:18:47,640 --> 00:18:44,680
named Jaime Shonda ray who worked with

389
00:18:50,550 --> 00:18:47,650
Bill Moore and was one the person who

390
00:18:53,790 --> 00:18:50,560
actually got in the mail this film of

391
00:18:55,410 --> 00:18:53,800
the so called mj-12 documents and just

392
00:18:57,390 --> 00:18:55,420
for the heck of it one of our regular

393
00:19:00,060 --> 00:18:57,400
listeners a friend of mine checked

394
00:19:02,040 --> 00:19:00,070
online to see if there was any record of

395
00:19:04,169 --> 00:19:02,050
what kind of producing this guy did

396
00:19:05,520 --> 00:19:04,179
Jamie Shonda Ray and as we know there's

397
00:19:09,450 --> 00:19:05,530
something called the Internet Movie

398
00:19:12,090 --> 00:19:09,460
Database where anybody anyone who is

399
00:19:14,279 --> 00:19:12,100
worked on a movie or TV show is gonna

400
00:19:15,810 --> 00:19:14,289
get some kind of listing if you blew the

401
00:19:18,450 --> 00:19:15,820
nose of the producer

402
00:19:21,029 --> 00:19:18,460
you'll be the nose blower whatever my

403
00:19:23,789 --> 00:19:21,039
name is in that write your names in

404
00:19:26,340 --> 00:19:23,799
their previous co-hosts is in there lots

405
00:19:29,490 --> 00:19:26,350
of people lots of people are in there

406
00:19:31,860 --> 00:19:29,500
even the PRU member who does very very

407
00:19:34,769 --> 00:19:31,870
little okay so we looked

408
00:19:37,799 --> 00:19:34,779
is there a Jamie Shonda ray in the

409
00:19:42,090 --> 00:19:37,809
Internet Movie Database okay there is

410
00:19:43,950 --> 00:19:42,100
one listing for a Jamie H Shonda ray

411
00:19:47,880 --> 00:19:43,960
don't know if it's the same guy or not

412
00:19:50,700 --> 00:19:47,890
for 1975 he was involved in the movie

413
00:19:53,549 --> 00:19:50,710
called The Devil's rain his position was

414
00:19:56,610 --> 00:19:53,559
video does that mean he rammed the video

415
00:20:00,029 --> 00:19:56,620
tape decks I don't know did he have a

416
00:20:03,029 --> 00:20:00,039
video camera and take shots of the set I

417
00:20:05,580 --> 00:20:03,039
don't know that's the only listing we

418
00:20:07,230 --> 00:20:05,590
can find for a Jamie Shonda ray in the

419
00:20:10,230 --> 00:20:07,240
Internet Movie Database

420
00:20:13,620 --> 00:20:10,240
it goes back decades in decades

421
00:20:15,919 --> 00:20:13,630
you name the star the director producer

422
00:20:19,409 --> 00:20:15,929
writer member of the crew it's on there

423
00:20:22,760 --> 00:20:19,419
checked online what pray tell did he

424
00:20:26,370 --> 00:20:22,770
produce well you know it's been

425
00:20:29,820 --> 00:20:26,380
literally practically a quarter of a

426
00:20:35,779 --> 00:20:29,830
century since I seriously thought about

427
00:20:40,919 --> 00:20:35,789
Jamie Chandra after the mj-12 document

428
00:20:42,230 --> 00:20:40,929
broke okay Shandra basically disappeared

429
00:20:47,880 --> 00:20:42,240
into the woodwork

430
00:20:53,070 --> 00:20:47,890
Moore was still around for several years

431
00:20:59,610 --> 00:20:53,080
but don't forget in 89 more committed

432
00:21:05,100 --> 00:20:59,620
professional suicide at you know it at

433
00:21:08,669 --> 00:21:05,110
MUFON so it was you know it he basically

434
00:21:13,350 --> 00:21:08,679
disappeared them from from the scene so

435
00:21:16,860 --> 00:21:13,360
as far as what he did I was always under

436
00:21:18,930 --> 00:21:16,870
the impression and I can't even tell you

437
00:21:21,090 --> 00:21:18,940
right now where this came from but I was

438
00:21:27,990 --> 00:21:21,100
always under the impression

439
00:21:31,110 --> 00:21:28,000
he was in TV news now perhaps with all

440
00:21:35,760 --> 00:21:31,120
that later came out about the mj-12

441
00:21:38,130 --> 00:21:35,770
documents he deliberately you know

442
00:21:40,680 --> 00:21:38,140
bounced out of there because he knew

443
00:21:43,529 --> 00:21:40,690
that sooner or later somebody was going

444
00:21:48,060 --> 00:21:43,539
to vet him I know that the skeptical

445
00:21:50,520 --> 00:21:48,070
community for a long time went after

446
00:21:53,490 --> 00:21:50,530
that people like Phil class and of

447
00:21:55,590 --> 00:21:53,500
course at that time Phil class was at

448
00:21:59,220 --> 00:21:55,600
the very top of the pinnacle of the

449
00:21:59,700 --> 00:21:59,230
skeptical community so it's it's hard to

450
00:22:03,210 --> 00:21:59,710
say

451
00:22:05,880 --> 00:22:03,220
I don't know gene but I'm not surprised

452
00:22:07,980 --> 00:22:05,890
that he's been among the missing for

453
00:22:12,029 --> 00:22:07,990
many many years of course it could be

454
00:22:16,470 --> 00:22:12,039
that's not his real name well anything

455
00:22:21,419 --> 00:22:16,480
is possible anything is possible and

456
00:22:25,200 --> 00:22:21,429
more of course went missing a long time

457
00:22:28,230 --> 00:22:25,210
ago now I've talked to people for

458
00:22:31,440 --> 00:22:28,240
example Greg at Bishop not too many

459
00:22:35,539 --> 00:22:31,450
months ago I came across a very

460
00:22:38,279 --> 00:22:35,549
historically important show that I

461
00:22:41,730 --> 00:22:38,289
conducted where I interviewed more and

462
00:22:44,430 --> 00:22:41,740
we were talking among other things we

463
00:22:46,560 --> 00:22:44,440
were talking about the case of Paul

464
00:22:48,690 --> 00:22:46,570
bennewitz and we'll get into the Paul

465
00:22:50,940 --> 00:22:48,700
bennewitz and what more did to Paul

466
00:22:53,789 --> 00:22:50,950
bennewitz with Don Ecker the co-host is

467
00:23:02,520 --> 00:22:53,799
Chris O'Brien I'm gene Steinberg you're

468
00:23:08,260 --> 00:23:05,100
[Music]

469
00:23:10,720 --> 00:23:08,270
Ray Perkins a reclusive veteran burned

470
00:23:12,720 --> 00:23:10,730
out from the Gulf War lives tortured by

471
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relentless perplexing nightmares

472
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space and of a mysterious woman

474
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suffering an agony for her devastated

475
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world a woman not yet born calling

476
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across centuries to him then a

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how to escape tickets by law and it

547
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550
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558
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559
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560
00:27:01,379 --> 00:26:56,769
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561
00:27:04,229 --> 00:27:01,389
harassment works are you tired of

562
00:27:05,980 --> 00:27:04,239
searching for great talk radio helping

563
00:27:25,630 --> 00:27:05,990
you more important search

564
00:27:27,700 --> 00:27:25,640
no we are the GCM radio network we're

565
00:27:30,160 --> 00:27:27,710
back on the power cast we're spending

566
00:27:33,040 --> 00:27:30,170
our evening with my old friend Don Ecker

567
00:27:36,370 --> 00:27:33,050
he has his own radio show Dark Matters

568
00:27:38,650 --> 00:27:36,380
he's a member of our forum team at the

569
00:27:42,370 --> 00:27:38,660
power cast forums at forum dr. Peric

570
00:27:45,370 --> 00:27:42,380
ascom we are exposing the fakers and the

571
00:27:48,040 --> 00:27:45,380
suspicious people out there and we were

572
00:27:50,680 --> 00:27:48,050
talking after a little bit of commentary

573
00:27:53,799 --> 00:27:50,690
about Jaime shondor a-and who were what

574
00:27:56,080 --> 00:27:53,809
he is or was Bill Moore and Paul

575
00:27:57,660 --> 00:27:56,090
bennewitz for those who have just heard

576
00:28:01,030 --> 00:27:57,670
us on the network for the first time

577
00:28:03,520 --> 00:28:01,040
what was the benifits case all about and

578
00:28:07,060 --> 00:28:03,530
Moore's connection to it well Paul

579
00:28:10,960 --> 00:28:07,070
bennewitz was a civilian scientist that

580
00:28:14,919 --> 00:28:10,970
was living very close to the Manzano

581
00:28:17,830 --> 00:28:14,929
weapons range right next door to an Air

582
00:28:19,810 --> 00:28:17,840
Force Base and and right now I'm having

583
00:28:23,290 --> 00:28:19,820
a senior moment the name of the Air

584
00:28:26,620 --> 00:28:23,300
Force Base just flew out of my head but

585
00:28:30,549 --> 00:28:26,630
regardless he was he was down there and

586
00:28:33,970 --> 00:28:30,559
he began to witness some very strange

587
00:28:39,970 --> 00:28:33,980
and unusual things now this man had had

588
00:28:42,880 --> 00:28:39,980
a very long time abiding interest in the

589
00:28:48,040 --> 00:28:42,890
topic and subject of unidentified flying

590
00:28:51,760 --> 00:28:48,050
objects he was and had been involved

591
00:28:54,940 --> 00:28:51,770
with a case of a woman and who's she and

592
00:28:58,180 --> 00:28:54,950
her children were allegedly abducted one

593
00:29:01,810 --> 00:28:58,190
night on a lonely I believe it was a New

594
00:29:04,210 --> 00:29:01,820
Mexico Road got involved in trying to

595
00:29:10,230 --> 00:29:04,220
backtrack research this woman's story

596
00:29:15,450 --> 00:29:10,240
and became convinced that not only were

597
00:29:19,150 --> 00:29:15,460
extraterrestrials here probably also

598
00:29:19,660 --> 00:29:19,160
residing in deep underground bases and

599
00:29:28,210 --> 00:29:19,670
that

600
00:29:30,960 --> 00:29:28,220
in nefarious things at this weapons

601
00:29:35,050 --> 00:29:30,970
range now he had taken a number of

602
00:29:38,200 --> 00:29:35,060
photographs had some set up radio

603
00:29:40,960 --> 00:29:38,210
receiving equipment where he was tapping

604
00:29:44,230 --> 00:29:40,970
into signals he didn't know what in the

605
00:29:48,070 --> 00:29:44,240
heck they were and started to raise

606
00:29:51,420 --> 00:29:48,080
quite a ruckus about it he contacted the

607
00:29:55,000 --> 00:29:51,430
Air Force personnel at the base he

608
00:29:59,500 --> 00:29:55,010
eventually even got in touch with his

609
00:30:04,570 --> 00:29:59,510
federal senator from his home state and

610
00:30:07,150 --> 00:30:04,580
was creating just more notoriety of this

611
00:30:10,630 --> 00:30:07,160
than the powers that be wanted because

612
00:30:13,750 --> 00:30:10,640
what he had apparently tapped into an

613
00:30:18,430 --> 00:30:13,760
incidentally Greg Bishop did a superb

614
00:30:21,160 --> 00:30:18,440
job on this by chronicling this in a

615
00:30:25,900 --> 00:30:21,170
book he had he wrote and had published

616
00:30:29,560 --> 00:30:25,910
several years ago but basically this

617
00:30:32,980 --> 00:30:29,570
concerned the intelligence people there

618
00:30:38,050 --> 00:30:32,990
was some type of a top-secret program

619
00:30:42,400 --> 00:30:38,060
going on and they saw bennewitz as very

620
00:30:46,560 --> 00:30:42,410
nearly exposing it so it was decided

621
00:30:52,000 --> 00:30:46,570
somewhere to mount a disinformation

622
00:30:56,530 --> 00:30:52,010
campaign directed at bennewitz now at

623
00:31:00,640 --> 00:30:56,540
that time civilian UFO researcher bill

624
00:31:05,290 --> 00:31:00,650
Moore was became involved in this now

625
00:31:09,070 --> 00:31:05,300
after more and Charles Berlitz published

626
00:31:13,360 --> 00:31:09,080
the very first book on the Roswell event

627
00:31:16,300 --> 00:31:13,370
the Roswell incident Moore was regarded

628
00:31:20,700 --> 00:31:16,310
by many many as being one of the top

629
00:31:23,650 --> 00:31:20,710
notch UFO researchers he was also

630
00:31:26,749 --> 00:31:23,660
involved with the aerial phenomena

631
00:31:30,769 --> 00:31:26,759
research organization

632
00:31:34,489 --> 00:31:30,779
April and with the two founders as a

633
00:31:39,669 --> 00:31:34,499
matter of fact the oldest civilian UFO

634
00:31:42,499 --> 00:31:39,679
research organization then in existence

635
00:31:44,239 --> 00:31:42,509
was on I believe their board of

636
00:31:48,409 --> 00:31:44,249
directors at the time now we're talking

637
00:31:52,279 --> 00:31:48,419
about the very early 1980s understand a

638
00:31:54,759 --> 00:31:52,289
pro run by quarrel and Jim Lorenzen was

639
00:31:56,930 --> 00:31:54,769
one of the most prestigious

640
00:31:58,759 --> 00:31:56,940
organizations out there I always had my

641
00:32:01,159 --> 00:31:58,769
run-ins with coral Lorenz and she was a

642
00:32:03,829 --> 00:32:01,169
crusty lady but you know in terms of

643
00:32:07,099 --> 00:32:03,839
research this was really the top of the

644
00:32:12,229 --> 00:32:07,109
heap oh yes they they were considered I

645
00:32:17,719 --> 00:32:12,239
mean they were up there and bill later

646
00:32:22,159 --> 00:32:17,729
it came out apparently was co-opted by

647
00:32:24,769 --> 00:32:22,169
the people in Air Force intelligence and

648
00:32:26,719 --> 00:32:24,779
God knows what other possible alphabet

649
00:32:30,680 --> 00:32:26,729
agencies that might have been involved

650
00:32:34,430 --> 00:32:30,690
in this I have my suspicions of who that

651
00:32:36,589 --> 00:32:34,440
might have been but at this point I

652
00:32:42,919 --> 00:32:36,599
could not prove it so I'm just gonna

653
00:32:45,649 --> 00:32:42,929
shut up about that but more later

654
00:32:48,309 --> 00:32:45,659
admitted that he was co-opted co-opted

655
00:32:52,519 --> 00:32:48,319
by these people he wanted to get on the

656
00:32:55,399 --> 00:32:52,529
inside in other words he wanted to be in

657
00:32:58,279 --> 00:32:55,409
a position and work hand in glove with

658
00:33:00,229 --> 00:32:58,289
these intelligence people because at

659
00:33:04,399 --> 00:33:00,239
that time he thought that they in fact

660
00:33:08,349 --> 00:33:04,409
had the thumb of the government on this

661
00:33:12,829 --> 00:33:08,359
this enigma whatever this enigma was and

662
00:33:14,979 --> 00:33:12,839
he began basically and there's no other

663
00:33:19,729 --> 00:33:14,989
way to say it it began working as a

664
00:33:23,779 --> 00:33:19,739
double agent he was reporting back to

665
00:33:28,129 --> 00:33:23,789
these intelligence people and what ended

666
00:33:32,119 --> 00:33:28,139
up being the most damning thing he was

667
00:33:37,310 --> 00:33:32,129
asked by these people if he would pass

668
00:33:41,190 --> 00:33:37,320
fraudulent documents andhe bennewitz and

669
00:33:44,190 --> 00:33:41,200
basically dis inform what was happening

670
00:33:49,379 --> 00:33:44,200
now there are some other allegations

671
00:33:53,570 --> 00:33:49,389
that were made about this sordid affair

672
00:33:58,080 --> 00:33:53,580
not the least of which they hired

673
00:34:01,340 --> 00:33:58,090
allegedly criminals they meaning the

674
00:34:04,710 --> 00:34:01,350
intelligence people to break into

675
00:34:06,869 --> 00:34:04,720
bennewitz his house periodically maybe

676
00:34:09,329 --> 00:34:06,879
they were working for Richard Nixon yeah

677
00:34:11,819 --> 00:34:09,339
maybe they would go in there rearrange

678
00:34:14,940 --> 00:34:11,829
furniture what-have-you and this all

679
00:34:19,399 --> 00:34:14,950
began to play upon bennewitz where he

680
00:34:24,270 --> 00:34:19,409
became extremely extremely paranoid and

681
00:34:26,220 --> 00:34:24,280
at one point more relayed to me he had

682
00:34:29,490 --> 00:34:26,230
gone out to meet Paul they had gone to

683
00:34:33,240 --> 00:34:29,500
lunch or dinner somewhere and in the

684
00:34:37,500 --> 00:34:33,250
course of a 45-minute time period he

685
00:34:41,970 --> 00:34:37,510
counted Venna wits smoking something

686
00:34:46,409 --> 00:34:41,980
like 28 cigarettes now when Moore told

687
00:34:49,169 --> 00:34:46,419
me that and he could obviously see the

688
00:34:52,079 --> 00:34:49,179
disintegration of Paul bennewitz his

689
00:34:54,180 --> 00:34:52,089
mental state there was something that in

690
00:34:57,030 --> 00:34:54,190
me that just turned I could not believe

691
00:35:00,270 --> 00:34:57,040
that another human being in a position

692
00:35:04,289 --> 00:35:00,280
like that would not have you know

693
00:35:06,420 --> 00:35:04,299
stepped away from that I personally in a

694
00:35:09,299 --> 00:35:06,430
case like that I could have never done

695
00:35:13,490 --> 00:35:09,309
anything like that and and I actually

696
00:35:16,500 --> 00:35:13,500
became very angry about that but it all

697
00:35:20,700 --> 00:35:16,510
cumulated when bennewitz had a mental

698
00:35:24,839 --> 00:35:20,710
breakdown literally ended up in a mental

699
00:35:26,819 --> 00:35:24,849
health facility and later I mean when

700
00:35:29,760 --> 00:35:26,829
when he finally got out prior to his

701
00:35:33,260 --> 00:35:29,770
death he wanted nothing to do with with

702
00:35:36,930 --> 00:35:33,270
any of this and his children today are

703
00:35:38,609 --> 00:35:36,940
still I mean very bitter about this to

704
00:35:41,549 --> 00:35:38,619
the point where they won't even talk to

705
00:35:44,050 --> 00:35:41,559
anybody I know when Greg was working

706
00:35:46,080 --> 00:35:44,060
Greg Bishop was working on his book

707
00:35:48,490 --> 00:35:46,090
and he had tried to get in touch with

708
00:35:50,200 --> 00:35:48,500
these people to talk to them to

709
00:35:51,550 --> 00:35:50,210
interview them and they would they would

710
00:35:53,470 --> 00:35:51,560
have nothing to do with it they were

711
00:35:57,820 --> 00:35:53,480
very angry about this whole thing and

712
00:36:00,340 --> 00:35:57,830
rightly so well in 1989 in July at the

713
00:36:04,500 --> 00:36:00,350
mutual UFO network national symposium

714
00:36:08,350 --> 00:36:04,510
which that year was held in Las Vegas

715
00:36:14,170 --> 00:36:08,360
Moore gave one of the the premier talks

716
00:36:16,690 --> 00:36:14,180
at that where he got up on stage for I

717
00:36:20,590 --> 00:36:16,700
guess it ran a couple of hours I was

718
00:36:22,300 --> 00:36:20,600
there my wife was there and and listen

719
00:36:24,850 --> 00:36:22,310
to what he had to say about this where

720
00:36:27,010 --> 00:36:24,860
he admitted this whole thing

721
00:36:31,300 --> 00:36:27,020
and when I say committed professional

722
00:36:35,590 --> 00:36:31,310
suicide in essence that's when he he did

723
00:36:38,490 --> 00:36:35,600
that and I mean he literally went from

724
00:36:42,760 --> 00:36:38,500
being considered one of the premier

725
00:36:45,070 --> 00:36:42,770
researchers in this crazy field to being

726
00:36:46,960 --> 00:36:45,080
persona non grata in the in the drop of

727
00:36:49,570 --> 00:36:46,970
a hat I'll tell you what we'll get into

728
00:36:51,430 --> 00:36:49,580
more of what happened to Bill more lots

729
00:36:53,650 --> 00:36:51,440
more coming up with Don Ecker Cris

730
00:37:03,100 --> 00:36:53,660
O'Brien's the co-host I'm gene Steinberg

731
00:37:07,430 --> 00:37:04,930
[Music]

732
00:37:10,040 --> 00:37:07,440
so here's what happened I was placing an

733
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order online the site went down it just

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stopped responding it took hours before

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it returned but I'd already placed the

736
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order with another company if your site

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goes down you could lose business and if

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you have a business or personal site

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you'll want to know it's easy to run and

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it will stay online at iWeb your site is

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seventy six GC and listeners why have

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the all-natural all-purpose first aid

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family even your family pets Dermatol is

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816
00:40:45,350 --> 00:40:42,240
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817
00:40:48,200 --> 00:40:45,360
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818
00:40:51,140 --> 00:40:48,210
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819
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820
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821
00:41:01,880 --> 00:40:57,150
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822
00:41:04,010 --> 00:41:01,890
all with Dermatol the Jay Z and Radio

823
00:41:08,690 --> 00:41:04,020
Network providing the world with

824
00:41:17,319 --> 00:41:08,700
hard-hitting talk radio G C and grey

825
00:41:26,680 --> 00:41:20,140
this is the wrong Park laughter of the

826
00:41:28,509 --> 00:41:26,690
awful encyclopedia other books we've

827
00:41:31,779 --> 00:41:28,519
returned to the para cast with Gene and

828
00:41:34,690 --> 00:41:31,789
Chris we're focusing on Don Ecker and

829
00:41:37,959 --> 00:41:34,700
his efforts over the years to expose the

830
00:41:40,029 --> 00:41:37,969
fakers and the ones and the situations

831
00:41:43,449 --> 00:41:40,039
he's witnessed and of course there's

832
00:41:46,269 --> 00:41:43,459
this infamous session at a Mew faun

833
00:41:49,150 --> 00:41:46,279
conference were researcher Bill Moore

834
00:41:52,749 --> 00:41:49,160
one of the people who helped bring out

835
00:41:56,620 --> 00:41:52,759
information about the Roswell case he

836
00:41:59,469 --> 00:41:56,630
confesses to being a disinformation guy

837
00:42:03,880 --> 00:41:59,479
Don yeah it was quite a shocking

838
00:42:07,650 --> 00:42:03,890
admission and what really angered many

839
00:42:11,680 --> 00:42:07,660
people and believe me that night is

840
00:42:16,599 --> 00:42:11,690
forever imprinted in my mind the outrage

841
00:42:20,349 --> 00:42:16,609
that was expressed by so many people and

842
00:42:22,809 --> 00:42:20,359
then the thing that probably solidified

843
00:42:24,849 --> 00:42:22,819
this and so many people's minds was the

844
00:42:28,359 --> 00:42:24,859
fact that immediately upon the

845
00:42:31,390 --> 00:42:28,369
completion of more speech he very

846
00:42:35,109 --> 00:42:31,400
arrogantly just turned around literally

847
00:42:38,769 --> 00:42:35,119
ran out jumped I don't recall if he was

848
00:42:40,930 --> 00:42:38,779
in a an automobile truck or or I might

849
00:42:43,059 --> 00:42:40,940
have been his motorcycle and went

850
00:42:45,999 --> 00:42:43,069
roaring off into the night back to LA

851
00:42:49,719 --> 00:42:46,009
never stayed around to answer any

852
00:42:53,650 --> 00:42:49,729
questions or make any further admissions

853
00:42:55,839 --> 00:42:53,660
and from that point on although in the

854
00:42:58,569 --> 00:42:55,849
in the near term immediately following

855
00:43:01,390 --> 00:42:58,579
that he was still somewhat public

856
00:43:05,140 --> 00:43:01,400
he basically drifted right off the radar

857
00:43:07,479 --> 00:43:05,150
now the thing that that bill more and

858
00:43:10,180 --> 00:43:07,489
and of course Jaime Chandra whom we were

859
00:43:13,029 --> 00:43:10,190
were talking about earlier the thing

860
00:43:17,769 --> 00:43:13,039
that they were most well known for was

861
00:43:22,449 --> 00:43:17,779
the discovery if you will of the mj-12

862
00:43:27,759 --> 00:43:22,459
documents now what these documents

863
00:43:28,990 --> 00:43:27,769
allegedly were was a briefing document

864
00:43:34,710 --> 00:43:29,000
prepared

865
00:43:36,520 --> 00:43:34,720
in the very end President Harry Truman's

866
00:43:40,030 --> 00:43:36,530
administration which would have been

867
00:43:42,640 --> 00:43:40,040
around 50 to the end of 52 because

868
00:43:46,540 --> 00:43:42,650
Dwight Eisenhower took over the White

869
00:43:49,570 --> 00:43:46,550
House in January of 53 so this was

870
00:43:52,330 --> 00:43:49,580
allegedly prepared for incoming

871
00:43:56,680 --> 00:43:52,340
President Dwight Eisenhower and it

872
00:44:02,710 --> 00:43:56,690
basically discussed the event at Roswell

873
00:44:05,620 --> 00:44:02,720
and a scientific / military team of some

874
00:44:09,730 --> 00:44:05,630
of the top talent than in the United

875
00:44:12,510 --> 00:44:09,740
States that was alleged once again put

876
00:44:16,120 --> 00:44:12,520
together by President Truman to

877
00:44:21,480 --> 00:44:16,130
investigate what what all this meant now

878
00:44:24,250 --> 00:44:21,490
that began a whole new series of

879
00:44:28,750 --> 00:44:24,260
guessing games being played there were

880
00:44:34,170 --> 00:44:28,760
Pro people Pro mj-12 people there were

881
00:44:38,640 --> 00:44:34,180
anti mj-12 people and that was literally

882
00:44:41,830 --> 00:44:38,650
one of the first documents I ever saw

883
00:44:45,790 --> 00:44:41,840
that was instrumental for pulling me

884
00:44:49,780 --> 00:44:45,800
into this crazy field I'll never forget

885
00:44:52,660 --> 00:44:49,790
the first time I encountered those up on

886
00:44:56,380 --> 00:44:52,670
the old CompuServe computer service and

887
00:44:58,030 --> 00:44:56,390
at the time gene and and I'm sure you'll

888
00:45:02,890 --> 00:44:58,040
appreciate this and I've talked about it

889
00:45:05,260 --> 00:45:02,900
before on the podcast I had a very by

890
00:45:08,080 --> 00:45:05,270
today's standards not it wouldn't even

891
00:45:12,520 --> 00:45:08,090
rate as primitive but a very primitive

892
00:45:16,990 --> 00:45:12,530
computer and a 300 baud modem that I

893
00:45:20,190 --> 00:45:17,000
downloaded those document you know must

894
00:45:23,320 --> 00:45:20,200
have taken all week oh it did and and

895
00:45:26,200 --> 00:45:23,330
literally I was reading this thing as it

896
00:45:28,720 --> 00:45:26,210
was downloading it was you know we're

897
00:45:31,210 --> 00:45:28,730
reading very slowly I guess very slowly

898
00:45:33,190 --> 00:45:31,220
okay word by word it comes down let's

899
00:45:35,980 --> 00:45:33,200
get to the chase of this of course and

900
00:45:39,460 --> 00:45:35,990
that is here it comes on film to this

901
00:45:41,110 --> 00:45:39,470
alleged producer and as I said earlier

902
00:45:42,750 --> 00:45:41,120
in the show if you check the Internet

903
00:45:44,670 --> 00:45:42,760
Movie Database

904
00:45:48,720 --> 00:45:44,680
there's only one record of a Jamie

905
00:45:51,330 --> 00:45:48,730
shunned array anywhere online you can't

906
00:45:54,180 --> 00:45:51,340
find any credentials for this guy it's

907
00:45:56,310 --> 00:45:54,190
almost as if he doesn't exist well this

908
00:46:02,120 --> 00:45:56,320
is this is one of the things that's so

909
00:46:06,210 --> 00:46:02,130
crazy about this if these documents were

910
00:46:08,700 --> 00:46:06,220
legitimate and for what it's worth for a

911
00:46:11,850 --> 00:46:08,710
long time I've considered them another

912
00:46:16,350 --> 00:46:11,860
piece of disinformation in other words I

913
00:46:20,430 --> 00:46:16,360
don't believe them although if Roswell

914
00:46:23,760 --> 00:46:20,440
was a real event and something happened

915
00:46:26,640 --> 00:46:23,770
there something by God did happen if it

916
00:46:29,610 --> 00:46:26,650
was extraterrestrial I have no doubt

917
00:46:31,950 --> 00:46:29,620
that trohman would have our whatever

918
00:46:34,860 --> 00:46:31,960
sitting president would have put

919
00:46:37,740 --> 00:46:34,870
together a panel very similar to this

920
00:46:41,130 --> 00:46:37,750
but this particular document

921
00:46:43,440 --> 00:46:41,140
I don't believe and my question has

922
00:46:46,500 --> 00:46:43,450
always been going back to the very

923
00:46:49,770 --> 00:46:46,510
beginning why would anybody in

924
00:46:52,470 --> 00:46:49,780
government have sent this to somebody

925
00:46:55,350 --> 00:46:52,480
like Shandra he's basically an unknown

926
00:46:57,540 --> 00:46:55,360
alleged video producer that's it why

927
00:46:59,040 --> 00:46:57,550
send it to him he's nobody anybody ever

928
00:47:01,170 --> 00:46:59,050
heard of that there were a lot of other

929
00:47:03,210 --> 00:47:01,180
people if they wanted to get this out to

930
00:47:05,700 --> 00:47:03,220
the UFO field there were a hell of a lot

931
00:47:07,380 --> 00:47:05,710
of other people that would have been

932
00:47:09,330 --> 00:47:07,390
much more suitable to send them to

933
00:47:12,270 --> 00:47:09,340
people like Friedman Stanton Friedman

934
00:47:15,660 --> 00:47:12,280
who had been on the trail for many many

935
00:47:19,800 --> 00:47:15,670
years and and a few others at that time

936
00:47:23,310 --> 00:47:19,810
but it it never made sense to me or even

937
00:47:27,510 --> 00:47:23,320
had it have been sent to Bill Moore that

938
00:47:30,030 --> 00:47:27,520
would have made more sense but once

939
00:47:33,870 --> 00:47:30,040
again we we get into the the realm of

940
00:47:38,490 --> 00:47:33,880
speculation might more have been the

941
00:47:39,900 --> 00:47:38,500
author of this now he's adamantly denied

942
00:47:43,290 --> 00:47:39,910
that from day one

943
00:47:45,930 --> 00:47:43,300
of course how do you know but once again

944
00:47:48,270 --> 00:47:45,940
yeah how do you know well let's go to

945
00:47:51,030 --> 00:47:48,280
this other case that you're going to

946
00:47:53,550 --> 00:47:51,040
update us on and this is the one that we

947
00:47:56,130 --> 00:47:53,560
first described on the para cast a

948
00:47:58,560 --> 00:47:56,140
couple of weeks back over the years

949
00:48:01,320 --> 00:47:58,570
one of our semi-regular guests was a UFO

950
00:48:02,820 --> 00:48:01,330
researcher named Philip and brog know he

951
00:48:06,270 --> 00:48:02,830
had written a book called night siege

952
00:48:08,760 --> 00:48:06,280
with dr. J Alan Hynek a very prestigious

953
00:48:10,200 --> 00:48:08,770
reputation but then he's made you know a

954
00:48:12,420 --> 00:48:10,210
couple of claims there it seemed to be

955
00:48:14,010 --> 00:48:12,430
slightly on the edge but okay you know

956
00:48:16,650 --> 00:48:14,020
we gave him his due he seemed to have

957
00:48:18,720 --> 00:48:16,660
great credentials and then this is now

958
00:48:22,170 --> 00:48:18,730
public one of our listeners lance moody

959
00:48:24,990 --> 00:48:22,180
a skeptic he goes out there and you know

960
00:48:26,940 --> 00:48:25,000
he gets a suspicion he feels something

961
00:48:29,700 --> 00:48:26,950
is strange about Umbraco

962
00:48:33,510 --> 00:48:29,710
finds out that in broad nose claims of

963
00:48:36,600 --> 00:48:33,520
having graduated or even attending MIT

964
00:48:39,870 --> 00:48:36,610
were false there's no evidence of it and

965
00:48:41,460 --> 00:48:39,880
now as the investigation continues we're

966
00:48:44,040 --> 00:48:41,470
seeing possible evidence that he has

967
00:48:46,230 --> 00:48:44,050
falsified some of his other credentials

968
00:48:49,500 --> 00:48:46,240
and then there's this peculiar message

969
00:48:51,900 --> 00:48:49,510
in one online forum devoted to the

970
00:48:55,020 --> 00:48:51,910
strange and unknown that appears to come

971
00:48:57,420 --> 00:48:55,030
from Umbro glow and we're Umbraco says

972
00:49:00,270 --> 00:48:57,430
something really really strange and we

973
00:49:03,200 --> 00:49:00,280
can't even read the entire message here

974
00:49:06,150 --> 00:49:03,210
because some of the words do not work on

975
00:49:08,430 --> 00:49:06,160
family-friendly radio so how did you get

976
00:49:12,750 --> 00:49:08,440
started with the investigation done well

977
00:49:17,180 --> 00:49:12,760
let me first say that I have known in

978
00:49:22,230 --> 00:49:17,190
brog know going back to the very late

979
00:49:25,410 --> 00:49:22,240
1980s when I first became active in this

980
00:49:29,790 --> 00:49:25,420
field I did a tremendous amount of

981
00:49:32,490 --> 00:49:29,800
reading of research I haunted bookstores

982
00:49:34,740 --> 00:49:32,500
when I made a conscious decision that

983
00:49:37,980 --> 00:49:34,750
this was something that fascinated me I

984
00:49:40,650 --> 00:49:37,990
had recently been medically retired I

985
00:49:44,940 --> 00:49:40,660
had a lot of time on my hands I had

986
00:49:48,360 --> 00:49:44,950
undergone a divorce at that time and I

987
00:49:50,700 --> 00:49:48,370
basically you know wasn't doing a heck

988
00:49:53,250 --> 00:49:50,710
of a lot except I was going back to

989
00:49:55,950 --> 00:49:53,260
school I was taking some computer

990
00:49:59,520 --> 00:49:55,960
courses and some other things this was

991
00:50:01,620 --> 00:49:59,530
something that really this field of the

992
00:50:05,850 --> 00:50:01,630
unknown had really grabbed ahold of me

993
00:50:08,290 --> 00:50:05,860
so I decided to start doing some

994
00:50:10,660 --> 00:50:08,300
research and possibly some writing

995
00:50:14,560 --> 00:50:10,670
and one of the books that I ended up

996
00:50:18,940 --> 00:50:14,570
picking up was night siege now J Allen

997
00:50:23,650 --> 00:50:18,950
Hynek was a name that was legendary in

998
00:50:27,000 --> 00:50:23,660
the annals of UFO research for 20 years

999
00:50:30,730 --> 00:50:27,010
Hynek had been the Air Force civilian

1000
00:50:35,290 --> 00:50:30,740
consultant on the old Project Blue Book

1001
00:50:40,180 --> 00:50:35,300
Bob Pratt although I did not know Bob I

1002
00:50:43,180 --> 00:50:40,190
knew of Bob and Phil and Brock no was

1003
00:50:46,450 --> 00:50:43,190
was another name that I was not aware of

1004
00:50:48,730 --> 00:50:46,460
at the time but when I came onboard with

1005
00:50:53,890 --> 00:50:48,740
UFO magazine there were some other

1006
00:50:55,960 --> 00:50:53,900
things coming out of this case of night

1007
00:51:00,150 --> 00:50:55,970
siege that took place in the Hudson

1008
00:51:05,290 --> 00:51:00,160
Valley area of New York now one of the

1009
00:51:09,280 --> 00:51:05,300
parts of that case that was absolutely

1010
00:51:12,120 --> 00:51:09,290
astounding was the alleged overflight of

1011
00:51:17,040 --> 00:51:12,130
the Indian Point a nuclear power plant

1012
00:51:19,660 --> 00:51:17,050
by all accounts of a unknown object of

1013
00:51:23,410 --> 00:51:19,670
gigantic proportions and I'm talking

1014
00:51:27,190 --> 00:51:23,420
about something that was described as

1015
00:51:29,470 --> 00:51:27,200
being the size and length of a football

1016
00:51:32,470 --> 00:51:29,480
field we're talking about one big craft

1017
00:51:35,410 --> 00:51:32,480
over a sensitive facility a nuclear

1018
00:51:38,530 --> 00:51:35,420
power plant and this was a major part or

1019
00:51:40,330 --> 00:51:38,540
one key part of the book night siege and

1020
00:51:42,760 --> 00:51:40,340
we're talking about Philip and Bragg

1021
00:51:45,340 --> 00:51:42,770
know and how his history has come

1022
00:51:47,920 --> 00:51:45,350
falling apart with Don Ecker the co-host

1023
00:51:52,520 --> 00:51:47,930
is Chris O'Brien I'm gene Steinberg

1024
00:51:57,690 --> 00:51:55,160
[Music]

1025
00:51:59,550 --> 00:51:57,700
hi this is Ted Anderson if you'd like to

1026
00:52:01,680 --> 00:51:59,560
listen to GCN programs on the goal I

1027
00:52:03,630 --> 00:52:01,690
have great news g ZN s created a droid

1028
00:52:05,970 --> 00:52:03,640
and iphone application and it's free

1029
00:52:07,830 --> 00:52:05,980
just as easy as going to GC and live.com

1030
00:52:09,150 --> 00:52:07,840
click on the banner and download before

1031
00:52:11,220 --> 00:52:09,160
you know it you'll be listening to your

1032
00:52:12,660 --> 00:52:11,230
favorite hard-hitting GCN shows live

1033
00:52:15,150 --> 00:52:12,670
around a man right on your droid or

1034
00:52:16,860 --> 00:52:15,160
iphone 24/7 and on the go so download

1035
00:52:18,810 --> 00:52:16,870
the droid and iphone app free by

1036
00:52:20,340 --> 00:52:18,820
clicking on the banner at GCN live.com

1037
00:52:23,040 --> 00:52:20,350
thanks again for listening to GC and

1038
00:52:24,540 --> 00:52:23,050
live.com again that's GC and live.com we

1039
00:52:26,430 --> 00:52:24,550
the people grow contin the weave fabric

1040
00:52:27,900 --> 00:52:26,440
engraving can bed strips and fibers to

1041
00:52:29,490 --> 00:52:27,910
protect from counterfeit than carding to

1042
00:52:29,910 --> 00:52:29,500
a private bank having a led back at

1043
00:52:31,530 --> 00:52:29,920
interest

1044
00:52:33,210 --> 00:52:31,540
forcing taxes to service debt this

1045
00:52:34,530 --> 00:52:33,220
capitalism or was jefferson correct when

1046
00:52:36,030 --> 00:52:34,540
stating a central bank issuing the

1047
00:52:37,050 --> 00:52:36,040
public currency is a greater menace to

1048
00:52:38,310 --> 00:52:37,060
the liberties of the people than a

1049
00:52:39,600 --> 00:52:38,320
standing army today understand i'm

1050
00:52:41,280 --> 00:52:39,610
placing a free summer dollar in a book

1051
00:52:44,520 --> 00:52:41,290
that explains our monetary system call

1052
00:52:47,310 --> 00:52:44,530
for your copy 806 86 to 237 it's time to

1053
00:52:56,130 --> 00:52:47,320
understand the system call 866 to 237

1054
00:52:58,260 --> 00:52:56,140
that's 800 6 8 6 2 2 3 7 welcome back to

1055
00:53:01,920 --> 00:52:58,270
the pair cast the gold standard of

1056
00:53:05,960 --> 00:53:01,930
paranormal radio and now here's gene

1057
00:53:10,819 --> 00:53:07,960
[Music]

1058
00:53:14,029 --> 00:53:10,829
return with us now to those thrilling

1059
00:53:16,460 --> 00:53:14,039
days wrong radio show we're dealing with

1060
00:53:20,660 --> 00:53:16,470
the para cast of gene and Chris and Don

1061
00:53:23,960 --> 00:53:20,670
Ecker has been telling us about Philip

1062
00:53:27,410 --> 00:53:23,970
and Bragg know how he knew him and about

1063
00:53:30,589 --> 00:53:27,420
ultimately how things came falling apart

1064
00:53:33,410 --> 00:53:30,599
the book is night siege co-authored also

1065
00:53:36,890 --> 00:53:33,420
with dr. J Alan Hynek we have this large

1066
00:53:39,620 --> 00:53:36,900
craft scene over the Indian Point

1067
00:53:44,569 --> 00:53:39,630
nuclear power plant in New York State

1068
00:53:47,720 --> 00:53:44,579
but wait there's more it's so much more

1069
00:53:50,690 --> 00:53:47,730
when we first heard about this now one

1070
00:53:53,690 --> 00:53:50,700
of the things that that I'm very good at

1071
00:53:57,200 --> 00:53:53,700
doing I I wanted to get this from the

1072
00:54:00,349 --> 00:53:57,210
horse's mouth so I immediately jumped on

1073
00:54:02,930 --> 00:54:00,359
the telephone track down in Broadmeadow

1074
00:54:06,740 --> 00:54:02,940
called him up we discussed this and he

1075
00:54:10,549 --> 00:54:06,750
had some rather amazing things to tell

1076
00:54:14,359 --> 00:54:10,559
me about this case now we ended up doing

1077
00:54:18,380 --> 00:54:14,369
a very big spread in UFO magazine about

1078
00:54:21,470 --> 00:54:18,390
this which Umbraco contributed to some

1079
00:54:25,009 --> 00:54:21,480
of the things that came out was when

1080
00:54:27,710 --> 00:54:25,019
this unknown object flew over the Indian

1081
00:54:30,819 --> 00:54:27,720
Point nuclear power plant it hovered

1082
00:54:34,160 --> 00:54:30,829
above the only at that time working

1083
00:54:37,789 --> 00:54:34,170
reactor and if my memory serves me it

1084
00:54:41,240 --> 00:54:37,799
was reactor number three now when it did

1085
00:54:44,480 --> 00:54:41,250
this also according to and brog know at

1086
00:54:46,370 --> 00:54:44,490
that time inexplicably the security

1087
00:54:50,180 --> 00:54:46,380
system of the power plant

1088
00:54:54,890 --> 00:54:50,190
failed and according to in broad no and

1089
00:54:57,019 --> 00:54:54,900
one of his contacts who was as he

1090
00:55:00,529 --> 00:54:57,029
described him then one of the security

1091
00:55:04,190 --> 00:55:00,539
people these guys at the at the power

1092
00:55:08,410 --> 00:55:04,200
plant became so concerned that they

1093
00:55:11,809 --> 00:55:08,420
called up a nearby Air National Guard

1094
00:55:15,079 --> 00:55:11,819
airfield and requested an armed

1095
00:55:16,500 --> 00:55:15,089
helicopter to come over and shoot this

1096
00:55:19,290 --> 00:55:16,510
thing down

1097
00:55:22,170 --> 00:55:19,300
now let me ask you a fast question

1098
00:55:24,570 --> 00:55:22,180
before you go on dawn is fill-in brog

1099
00:55:25,320 --> 00:55:24,580
know the one and only source of all this

1100
00:55:28,380 --> 00:55:25,330
information

1101
00:55:32,370 --> 00:55:28,390
oh no we we we called up we talked to

1102
00:55:34,290 --> 00:55:32,380
officials and I mean you know we we

1103
00:55:35,580 --> 00:55:34,300
vetted this story I understand I think

1104
00:55:38,630 --> 00:55:35,590
we wanted to clarify that for our

1105
00:55:41,280 --> 00:55:38,640
listeners right and and I might add that

1106
00:55:44,190 --> 00:55:41,290
the officials that we talked to at the

1107
00:55:48,690 --> 00:55:44,200
time denied a lot of disinformation

1108
00:55:51,840 --> 00:55:48,700
which we also included in the story that

1109
00:55:54,180 --> 00:55:51,850
you know they said that this didn't

1110
00:55:57,540 --> 00:55:54,190
happen or this did happen but we we did

1111
00:56:02,550 --> 00:55:57,550
talk to a lot of people so Phil later

1112
00:56:05,849 --> 00:56:02,560
told me one thing that stuck with me now

1113
00:56:10,020 --> 00:56:05,859
when he told me at the time I gotta tell

1114
00:56:15,000 --> 00:56:10,030
you my eyebrows raised quite a bit but I

1115
00:56:19,700 --> 00:56:15,010
was willing to listen and he told me

1116
00:56:24,330 --> 00:56:19,710
that after that happened periodically

1117
00:56:29,280 --> 00:56:24,340
people at the plant claimed that they

1118
00:56:33,230 --> 00:56:29,290
saw entities entering and leaving the

1119
00:56:35,700 --> 00:56:33,240
reactor wall of this operating nuclear

1120
00:56:37,200 --> 00:56:35,710
reactor Wow that's news to me I never

1121
00:56:40,650 --> 00:56:37,210
heard that one oh yeah

1122
00:56:43,200 --> 00:56:40,660
oh yeah and I you know I really grilled

1123
00:56:45,570 --> 00:56:43,210
him and I said well who were these

1124
00:56:49,170 --> 00:56:45,580
people he said well they workers inside

1125
00:56:51,810 --> 00:56:49,180
and I said well Phil I I would love to

1126
00:56:53,400 --> 00:56:51,820
to talk to one of these people either on

1127
00:56:57,660 --> 00:56:53,410
or off the record

1128
00:57:04,290 --> 00:56:57,670
and unfortunately that information was

1129
00:57:08,700 --> 00:57:04,300
never forthcoming okay now with that

1130
00:57:12,330 --> 00:57:08,710
being said with that being said so when

1131
00:57:15,060 --> 00:57:12,340
this scandal and there's no other way to

1132
00:57:19,349 --> 00:57:15,070
state it but it but to call it what it

1133
00:57:22,380 --> 00:57:19,359
is this scandal of a individual that for

1134
00:57:26,420 --> 00:57:22,390
many years was considered one of the

1135
00:57:30,750 --> 00:57:26,430
most stable and not not to mention

1136
00:57:33,780 --> 00:57:30,760
credentialed fellows in the UFO field

1137
00:57:37,590 --> 00:57:33,790
somebody that in the last couple of

1138
00:57:41,099 --> 00:57:37,600
years started to project a much more

1139
00:57:43,880 --> 00:57:41,109
public persona I've interviewed him a

1140
00:57:48,150 --> 00:57:43,890
number of times on dark matters radio

1141
00:57:51,870 --> 00:57:48,160
Phil had a number of books that he has

1142
00:57:56,910 --> 00:57:51,880
recently written had published most

1143
00:58:00,900 --> 00:57:56,920
recently along with co-author rosemary

1144
00:58:05,490 --> 00:58:00,910
ellen guiley on the gen now the gin was

1145
00:58:10,260 --> 00:58:05,500
was a new facet that popped out in the

1146
00:58:13,230 --> 00:58:10,270
last couple of years which instead of so

1147
00:58:16,470 --> 00:58:13,240
many of these unknown objects that

1148
00:58:21,359 --> 00:58:16,480
people are seeing with an interplanetary

1149
00:58:24,630 --> 00:58:21,369
or interstellar origin all speculation

1150
00:58:28,440 --> 00:58:24,640
of course in brog know was floating this

1151
00:58:31,849 --> 00:58:28,450
this idea that basically heralds back to

1152
00:58:34,940 --> 00:58:31,859
people like Jacques filet John keel and

1153
00:58:38,460 --> 00:58:34,950
others in the past of an

1154
00:58:42,570 --> 00:58:38,470
inter-dimensional explanation on some of

1155
00:58:46,140 --> 00:58:42,580
these things now when I first heard this

1156
00:58:48,660 --> 00:58:46,150
and I read all the books that in broad

1157
00:58:50,880 --> 00:58:48,670
no had written you know I got to tell

1158
00:58:54,599 --> 00:58:50,890
you this this made sense in a number of

1159
00:58:57,900 --> 00:58:54,609
venues for me they're very possibly some

1160
00:59:00,630 --> 00:58:57,910
of these in fact might be good now to

1161
00:59:03,630 --> 00:59:00,640
get back to the scandal so along about

1162
00:59:09,120 --> 00:59:03,640
the very first part of May or the very

1163
00:59:13,440 --> 00:59:09,130
very end of April I also was contacted

1164
00:59:16,620 --> 00:59:13,450
by pear cast user Lance Moody now Lance

1165
00:59:20,820 --> 00:59:16,630
is one of the noted skeptics on the

1166
00:59:23,340 --> 00:59:20,830
board now I got to tell you and now it's

1167
00:59:26,220 --> 00:59:23,350
been almost 25 years that I've been

1168
00:59:30,950 --> 00:59:26,230
involved in this crazy field over those

1169
00:59:34,730 --> 00:59:30,960
years I butted heads with many skills

1170
00:59:37,530 --> 00:59:34,740
okay both on the on the air on the

1171
00:59:37,930 --> 00:59:37,540
television and in person people I know

1172
00:59:42,839 --> 00:59:37,940
this

1173
00:59:46,210 --> 00:59:42,849
and on dr. Jim Oberg okay Joe Nickell

1174
00:59:48,460 --> 00:59:46,220
Michael Shermer I mean you know I could

1175
00:59:52,480 --> 00:59:48,470
give you a litany of all the names of

1176
00:59:57,030 --> 00:59:52,490
folks that at one point or another we've

1177
00:59:58,349 --> 00:59:57,040
had discussions over various cases and

1178
01:00:03,579 --> 00:59:58,359
what-have-you

1179
01:00:07,180 --> 01:00:03,589
now Lance I've seen Lance around the

1180
01:00:11,470 --> 01:00:07,190
landscape for some time now on a number

1181
01:00:14,109 --> 01:00:11,480
of different forms and venues and one

1182
01:00:16,990 --> 01:00:14,119
thing that that I noticed and as a

1183
01:00:21,069 --> 01:00:17,000
matter of fact a year or so back and I'm

1184
01:00:25,059 --> 01:00:21,079
sure the threads are still there we

1185
01:00:28,930 --> 01:00:25,069
clashed over the fact that he describes

1186
01:00:32,410 --> 01:00:28,940
somebody as a and you know in my

1187
01:00:35,319 --> 01:00:32,420
paper that I just published you know I

1188
01:00:39,700 --> 01:00:35,329
described the para cast as one of the

1189
01:00:41,819 --> 01:00:39,710
much more civil and enlightened forms

1190
01:00:44,559 --> 01:00:41,829
where these topics are discussed

1191
01:00:46,750 --> 01:00:44,569
sometimes you'd Lee yes well of course

1192
01:00:50,440 --> 01:00:46,760
Lance can sometimes go a little over the

1193
01:00:52,809 --> 01:00:50,450
top let's face it well he does his

1194
01:00:57,010 --> 01:00:52,819
research and he backs up his assertions

1195
01:00:59,440 --> 01:00:57,020
which is very refreshing yes he did in

1196
01:01:02,230 --> 01:00:59,450
this case he certainly did but he

1197
01:01:08,280 --> 01:01:02,240
contacted me now this was in the

1198
01:01:10,990 --> 01:01:08,290
aftermath of a very recent clash with me

1199
01:01:14,020 --> 01:01:11,000
where he came into the dark matters

1200
01:01:18,430 --> 01:01:14,030
radio forum discussing one of my

1201
01:01:21,670 --> 01:01:18,440
upcoming guests and a scientific journal

1202
01:01:24,250 --> 01:01:21,680
that was being discussed in the dark

1203
01:01:28,450 --> 01:01:24,260
matters forum in very negative terms now

1204
01:01:30,940 --> 01:01:28,460
I kind of got a little hot I got became

1205
01:01:36,760 --> 01:01:30,950
very heated about that because the show

1206
01:01:39,940 --> 01:01:36,770
had not even aired yet so I had one of

1207
01:01:42,069 --> 01:01:39,950
my I guess you could say my my periodic

1208
01:01:45,130 --> 01:01:42,079
temper tantrums

1209
01:01:47,710 --> 01:01:45,140
about that when it only happens

1210
01:01:50,260 --> 01:01:47,720
occasionally it's very very gentle very

1211
01:01:54,310 --> 01:01:50,270
soft-spoken gentleman look

1212
01:01:57,010 --> 01:01:54,320
but but anyway and and he kind of backed

1213
01:02:00,340 --> 01:01:57,020
off so when when I was contacted about

1214
01:02:04,660 --> 01:02:00,350
this in broad no business I was very

1215
01:02:07,690 --> 01:02:04,670
suspicious initially and I you know I

1216
01:02:10,270 --> 01:02:07,700
wanted to know well what exact be flew

1217
01:02:15,820 --> 01:02:10,280
up your bonnet that they caused you to

1218
01:02:18,070 --> 01:02:15,830
suddenly take off after this fellow let

1219
01:02:20,560 --> 01:02:18,080
me interrupt I am positive that Lance

1220
01:02:24,340 --> 01:02:20,570
had this this flash of intuition a

1221
01:02:29,980 --> 01:02:24,350
psychic moment deny you will totally

1222
01:02:31,540 --> 01:02:29,990
deny this but he vibin have a psychic

1223
01:02:33,580 --> 01:02:31,550
impression right now that there are

1224
01:02:36,280 --> 01:02:33,590
several companies out there who have

1225
01:02:38,410 --> 01:02:36,290
announcements send to you to give to you

1226
01:02:41,650 --> 01:02:38,420
on the power cast we're talking with Don

1227
01:02:43,870 --> 01:02:41,660
Ecker forum moderator for the power cast

1228
01:02:46,270 --> 01:02:43,880
forums and also hosted the dark matters

1229
01:02:48,850 --> 01:02:46,280
radio show Chris O'Brien's the co-host

1230
01:02:56,650 --> 01:02:48,860
I'm gene Steinberg you're in the para

1231
01:02:58,630 --> 01:02:56,660
cast have you been sitting on a few

1232
01:03:00,370 --> 01:02:58,640
great domain name ideas but haven't

1233
01:03:01,810 --> 01:03:00,380
locked them in for yourself good now you

1234
01:03:04,210 --> 01:03:01,820
can buy them through the number one

1235
01:03:05,770 --> 01:03:04,220
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1236
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as voted by the top tech blog life

1237
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1238
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buy domains cheap as low as $2.99 and

1239
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every new domain comes with who is guard

1240
01:03:16,990 --> 01:03:15,200
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1241
01:03:18,250 --> 01:03:17,000
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1242
01:03:21,070 --> 01:03:18,260
to grab those domain names before

1243
01:03:23,890 --> 01:03:21,080
someone else does namecheap.com go now

1244
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1245
01:03:27,700 --> 01:03:25,760
true reports of the strange and unknown

1246
01:03:29,470 --> 01:03:27,710
keep up with the latest on angels and

1247
01:03:32,200 --> 01:03:29,480
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1248
01:03:33,970 --> 01:03:32,210
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1249
01:03:36,220 --> 01:03:33,980
to receive your free issue of faith

1250
01:03:39,220 --> 01:03:36,230
magazine call now at one eight hundred

1251
01:03:43,450 --> 01:03:39,230
seven two eight two seven three zero or

1252
01:03:46,000 --> 01:03:43,460
visit their website at wwlp.com that's

1253
01:03:47,740 --> 01:03:46,010
one eight hundred seven two eight twenty

1254
01:03:51,820 --> 01:03:47,750
seven thirty what are you waiting for

1255
01:03:54,099 --> 01:03:51,830
your fate awaits gold if you listen to

1256
01:03:56,320 --> 01:03:54,109
the radio watch TV or surf the net

1257
01:03:58,330 --> 01:03:56,330
you're hearing about gold eventually you

1258
01:04:00,520 --> 01:03:58,340
will ask yourself is gold right for me

1259
01:04:02,640 --> 01:04:00,530
the answer might surprise you we protect

1260
01:04:04,529 --> 01:04:02,650
ourselves and our families for many

1261
01:04:06,449 --> 01:04:04,539
you have medical insurance is your home

1262
01:04:08,400 --> 01:04:06,459
ensure you carry life insurance

1263
01:04:10,439 --> 01:04:08,410
how about financial insurance if you own

1264
01:04:12,479 --> 01:04:10,449
gold then the answer is yes if you don't

1265
01:04:14,130 --> 01:04:12,489
own gold the question is why don't you

1266
01:04:16,169 --> 01:04:14,140
have financial insurance we put our

1267
01:04:18,299 --> 01:04:16,179
faith in things we trust do you trust

1268
01:04:19,979 --> 01:04:18,309
the dollar you trust the economy you

1269
01:04:21,659 --> 01:04:19,989
trust the government gold has always

1270
01:04:23,219 --> 01:04:21,669
been something you can trust for

1271
01:04:25,289 --> 01:04:23,229
thousands of years people have put their

1272
01:04:26,969 --> 01:04:25,299
faith in gold where will you put your

1273
01:04:29,339 --> 01:04:26,979
faith now is the time to protect

1274
01:05:06,179 --> 01:04:29,349
yourself and your family call Midas

1275
01:05:08,609 --> 01:05:06,189
Resources today at 1-866-376-8255 is

1276
01:05:11,130 --> 01:05:08,619
main military comm is not a typical

1277
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website it has much more than your own

1278
01:05:16,439 --> 01:05:13,959
surplus store quality military issues

1279
01:05:19,380 --> 01:05:16,449
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1280
01:05:19,859 --> 01:05:19,390
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1281
01:05:21,689 --> 01:05:19,869
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1282
01:05:23,909 --> 01:05:21,699
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1283
01:05:26,069 --> 01:05:23,919
strike-anywhere waterproof and storm

1284
01:05:29,159 --> 01:05:26,079
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1285
01:05:31,859 --> 01:05:29,169
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1286
01:05:34,140 --> 01:05:31,869
manuals sandbags by the Bale and a huge

1287
01:05:37,169 --> 01:05:34,150
moly assortment of vests and pouches for

1288
01:05:39,209 --> 01:05:37,179
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1289
01:05:41,130 --> 01:05:39,219
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1290
01:05:44,819 --> 01:05:41,140
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1291
01:05:46,739 --> 01:05:44,829
visit main military comm that's ma I and

1292
01:05:49,949 --> 01:05:46,749
II military comm

1293
01:05:52,349 --> 01:05:49,959
the main name in military supply if you

1294
01:05:55,559 --> 01:05:52,359
drive for a living you don't get paid to

1295
01:05:58,289 --> 01:05:55,569
stop or wait in line keep your wheels

1296
01:06:01,019 --> 01:05:58,299
move in with pre pass bypass weigh

1297
01:06:03,659 --> 01:06:01,029
stations fly by port of entry facilities

1298
01:06:05,099 --> 01:06:03,669
stay moving at highway speed while the

1299
01:06:08,440 --> 01:06:05,109
guy without free pass

1300
01:06:15,740 --> 01:06:11,720
save time save money call eight eight

1301
01:06:19,790 --> 01:06:15,750
eight 401 pass to try free pass free

1302
01:06:23,089 --> 01:06:19,800
that's eight eight eight 401 pass what's

1303
01:06:24,920 --> 01:06:23,099
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1304
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1308
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1309
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1310
01:06:42,170 --> 01:06:38,849
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1311
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1312
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1313
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1314
01:06:53,569 --> 01:06:51,030
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1315
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one source for independent all three

1316
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meals for over a decade

1317
01:07:08,839 --> 01:07:06,750
we are the gcn radio network we want to

1318
01:07:10,819 --> 01:07:08,849
hear from you if you have a comment or

1319
01:07:13,579 --> 01:07:10,829
question about the para cast sent it to

1320
01:07:17,000 --> 01:07:13,589
news at the para cast com

1321
01:07:19,220 --> 01:07:17,010
that's news at the pear cast calm and if

1322
01:07:20,690 --> 01:07:19,230
you want to catch up on past episodes we

1323
01:07:23,569 --> 01:07:20,700
have hundreds of shows for you to

1324
01:07:27,859 --> 01:07:23,579
download direct from the para cast com

1325
01:07:31,370 --> 01:07:27,869
that's the para cast calm or check us

1326
01:07:36,719 --> 01:07:33,839
Chris O'Brien is the co-host I'm gene

1327
01:07:40,679 --> 01:07:36,729
Steinberg with Don Ecker and we're

1328
01:07:44,239 --> 01:07:40,689
talking about the tragedy the scandal of

1329
01:07:47,130 --> 01:07:44,249
Phil and Bragg know how one of our

1330
01:07:49,769 --> 01:07:47,140
regular posters in the forest while my

1331
01:07:52,559 --> 01:07:49,779
regular listeners a skeptic named Lance

1332
01:07:55,229 --> 01:07:52,569
moody had this inspiration this psychic

1333
01:07:58,109 --> 01:07:55,239
impression to explore what's going on

1334
01:08:00,509 --> 01:07:58,119
Chris and Don continue well Lance

1335
01:08:03,689 --> 01:08:00,519
basically ended up sending me the

1336
01:08:07,289 --> 01:08:03,699
documentation he received from MIT

1337
01:08:11,549 --> 01:08:07,299
now the Massachusetts Institute of

1338
01:08:15,749 --> 01:08:11,559
Technology is considered and is one of

1339
01:08:19,399 --> 01:08:15,759
the premier learning institutions today

1340
01:08:23,309 --> 01:08:19,409
in the United States of America it is a

1341
01:08:27,089 --> 01:08:23,319
prestigious school and Phil had been

1342
01:08:31,709 --> 01:08:27,099
very recently touting the fact that he

1343
01:08:35,669 --> 01:08:31,719
had received a PhD from MIT and as a

1344
01:08:39,419 --> 01:08:35,679
matter of fact in the web presence that

1345
01:08:41,910 --> 01:08:39,429
he and rosemary ellen guiley had set up

1346
01:08:44,549 --> 01:08:41,920
promoting their newest book the vengeful

1347
01:08:47,970 --> 01:08:44,559
Djinn had that up there in very

1348
01:08:52,229 --> 01:08:47,980
prominent letters but the problem was

1349
01:08:56,549 --> 01:08:52,239
according to MIT they had absolutely no

1350
01:09:00,689 --> 01:08:56,559
record of this then what what makes the

1351
01:09:04,700 --> 01:09:00,699
para cast one of the most unique web

1352
01:09:08,160 --> 01:09:04,710
presences is we have an extremely

1353
01:09:12,149 --> 01:09:08,170
enlightened and very astute body of

1354
01:09:13,470 --> 01:09:12,159
people that use it very good thinkers I

1355
01:09:17,069 --> 01:09:13,480
mean there there are some very

1356
01:09:20,120 --> 01:09:17,079
impressive users on that forum and a

1357
01:09:24,629 --> 01:09:20,130
number of them began researching other

1358
01:09:28,700 --> 01:09:24,639
academic institutions that Umbraco had

1359
01:09:32,129 --> 01:09:28,710
had claimed having a legacy from and

1360
01:09:36,379 --> 01:09:32,139
nothing and I mean nothing was turning

1361
01:09:39,589 --> 01:09:36,389
up now this caused me to think because

1362
01:09:43,960 --> 01:09:39,599
now I was basically I was on the trail

1363
01:09:46,990 --> 01:09:43,970
okay I felt bad that I initially

1364
01:09:51,660 --> 01:09:47,000
had all the suspicions that I did

1365
01:09:56,980 --> 01:09:51,670
concerning Lance and on my radio program

1366
01:10:00,460 --> 01:09:56,990
Phil had on several occasions touted his

1367
01:10:03,940 --> 01:10:00,470
military background in the United States

1368
01:10:06,010 --> 01:10:03,950
Army's elite Special Forces and I think

1369
01:10:10,540 --> 01:10:06,020
it's important you mentioned done how

1370
01:10:12,880 --> 01:10:10,550
important one's military credentials and

1371
01:10:16,360 --> 01:10:12,890
one service is especially if you're a

1372
01:10:17,350 --> 01:10:16,370
soldier you've given yourself to God and

1373
01:10:21,040 --> 01:10:17,360
country

1374
01:10:25,030 --> 01:10:21,050
you've serve you've suffered and this is

1375
01:10:27,460 --> 01:10:25,040
a very important very distinctive sort

1376
01:10:31,120 --> 01:10:27,470
of service that people should be honored

1377
01:10:33,240 --> 01:10:31,130
if they serve but sometimes things are

1378
01:10:36,520 --> 01:10:33,250
not what they seem well this this

1379
01:10:40,540 --> 01:10:36,530
phenomenon of what today is known as

1380
01:10:43,330 --> 01:10:40,550
stolen valor is is really unusual and

1381
01:10:46,830 --> 01:10:43,340
for a number of reasons now gene Ewan

1382
01:10:50,620 --> 01:10:46,840
and Chris are both old enough to

1383
01:10:53,620 --> 01:10:50,630
remember what it was like during the

1384
01:10:58,360 --> 01:10:53,630
years of the war in Vietnam

1385
01:11:01,840 --> 01:10:58,370
now I entered the Army in 1969 and ended

1386
01:11:06,010 --> 01:11:01,850
up spending including time after I was

1387
01:11:08,830 --> 01:11:06,020
wounded 26 months in Southeast Asia both

1388
01:11:12,550 --> 01:11:08,840
active duty as well as when I was in the

1389
01:11:14,320 --> 01:11:12,560
hospital and when I returned things in

1390
01:11:18,570 --> 01:11:14,330
the United States back in those days

1391
01:11:22,750 --> 01:11:18,580
were extraordinarily and virulent Lee

1392
01:11:24,220 --> 01:11:22,760
anti-military returning vets from it

1393
01:11:26,640 --> 01:11:24,230
didn't matter what you were in the Air

1394
01:11:31,480 --> 01:11:26,650
Force the army the Marine Corps the Navy

1395
01:11:34,540 --> 01:11:31,490
were routinely reviled by many in the

1396
01:11:37,000 --> 01:11:34,550
public and there was a lot of anti

1397
01:11:40,900 --> 01:11:37,010
military propaganda being promoted

1398
01:11:46,420 --> 01:11:40,910
especially in the universities and on TV

1399
01:11:49,600 --> 01:11:46,430
so for years I mean most vets from that

1400
01:11:51,670 --> 01:11:49,610
particular war basically just clammed up

1401
01:11:54,370 --> 01:11:51,680
they refused to acknowledge that they

1402
01:11:56,510 --> 01:11:54,380
were there they refused to discuss it

1403
01:11:58,940 --> 01:11:56,520
with anybody because so many

1404
01:12:01,550 --> 01:11:58,950
had been treated so by Lee and that all

1405
01:12:04,850 --> 01:12:01,560
began to change in the early 80s with

1406
01:12:09,950 --> 01:12:04,860
the construction of the Vietnam Memorial

1407
01:12:12,800 --> 01:12:09,960
in Washington DC and then suddenly okay

1408
01:12:16,520 --> 01:12:12,810
this new phenomena spouted up of these

1409
01:12:19,580 --> 01:12:16,530
imaginary combat vets sporting you know

1410
01:12:22,250 --> 01:12:19,590
medals and Green Berets and they were

1411
01:12:25,250 --> 01:12:22,260
Navy SEALs or they were this or they

1412
01:12:28,040 --> 01:12:25,260
were that long-range recon and when you

1413
01:12:30,620 --> 01:12:28,050
started to check some of these guys it

1414
01:12:33,290 --> 01:12:30,630
all turned out to be poppycock I mean

1415
01:12:37,400 --> 01:12:33,300
there were literally even people running

1416
01:12:41,240 --> 01:12:37,410
around wearing the medal of honor which

1417
01:12:44,030 --> 01:12:41,250
is the highest military award that can

1418
01:12:48,470 --> 01:12:44,040
be bestowed by a grateful nation on any

1419
01:12:52,640 --> 01:12:48,480
vet and the fact is that probably 98

1420
01:12:55,460 --> 01:12:52,650
percent of all people ever recommended

1421
01:12:58,610 --> 01:12:55,470
for the Medal of Honor are dead okay

1422
01:13:01,280 --> 01:12:58,620
because they didn't survive whatever

1423
01:13:03,260 --> 01:13:01,290
operation they were on and and did

1424
01:13:05,810 --> 01:13:03,270
whatever it was that they did that

1425
01:13:08,690 --> 01:13:05,820
caused them to be recommended for it so

1426
01:13:12,350 --> 01:13:08,700
the Green Beret thing started playing on

1427
01:13:16,010 --> 01:13:12,360
me and I wondered about that and then I

1428
01:13:20,710 --> 01:13:16,020
saw a video up on YouTube that one of

1429
01:13:24,350 --> 01:13:20,720
the para cast listeners had posted of a

1430
01:13:27,560 --> 01:13:24,360
documentary that Umbraco was a part of

1431
01:13:31,970 --> 01:13:27,570
where they were examining some of these

1432
01:13:34,760 --> 01:13:31,980
stone caverns back in New York some very

1433
01:13:37,460 --> 01:13:34,770
mysterious things that nobody really

1434
01:13:39,860 --> 01:13:37,470
knows who built them or how old they are

1435
01:13:42,980 --> 01:13:39,870
or anything else but part of the

1436
01:13:45,650 --> 01:13:42,990
interview then was conducted inside and

1437
01:13:48,710 --> 01:13:45,660
broad knows home office or den and

1438
01:13:51,260 --> 01:13:48,720
sitting right off to the rear of phil

1439
01:13:54,380 --> 01:13:51,270
was there what appeared to be a human

1440
01:13:57,770 --> 01:13:54,390
skull with a green beret on it and when

1441
01:14:00,050 --> 01:13:57,780
I saw that I said okay boy now I'm

1442
01:14:01,790 --> 01:14:00,060
getting to work I'm gonna put my cop hat

1443
01:14:04,160 --> 01:14:01,800
back on and I'm gonna do some

1444
01:14:06,170 --> 01:14:04,170
investigation yeah that's kind of tacky

1445
01:14:09,500 --> 01:14:06,180
don't stink Don yeah you know this is a

1446
01:14:12,529 --> 01:14:09,510
family friendly radio program so I can't

1447
01:14:15,709 --> 01:14:12,539
really express all my my feelings and

1448
01:14:18,410 --> 01:14:15,719
emotions about that but I contacted some

1449
01:14:21,020 --> 01:14:18,420
some people I know in the Special

1450
01:14:25,669 --> 01:14:21,030
Warfare community and one of these

1451
01:14:29,779 --> 01:14:25,679
fellows is a retired 26 year army vet

1452
01:14:32,569 --> 01:14:29,789
who retired as a major in the Special

1453
01:14:35,540 --> 01:14:32,579
Forces airborne this guy and I mean he

1454
01:14:39,169 --> 01:14:35,550
gave me AI and the fellow that put me in

1455
01:14:41,600 --> 01:14:39,179
touch with him initially is a retired

1456
01:14:43,399 --> 01:14:41,610
colonel aviator okay

1457
01:14:46,310 --> 01:14:43,409
who knows this fellow as a matter of

1458
01:14:48,500 --> 01:14:46,320
fact they had worked together so you

1459
01:14:52,069 --> 01:14:48,510
know I I talked to this fellow told him

1460
01:14:54,259 --> 01:14:52,079
about my background and we hit it off

1461
01:14:56,959 --> 01:14:54,269
and I said look there's a guy here that

1462
01:15:01,040 --> 01:14:56,969
I basically want to check his bona fides

1463
01:15:03,890 --> 01:15:01,050
he is claiming to have been a Special

1464
01:15:06,950 --> 01:15:03,900
Forces trooper that was involved in

1465
01:15:09,350 --> 01:15:06,960
cross the fence missions in Southeast

1466
01:15:12,439 --> 01:15:09,360
Asia now what I refer to as crossed the

1467
01:15:16,040 --> 01:15:12,449
fence means that they were conducting

1468
01:15:19,569 --> 01:15:16,050
clandestine operations in places like

1469
01:15:23,149 --> 01:15:19,579
North Vietnam Laos and Cambodia and

1470
01:15:26,089 --> 01:15:23,159
specifically Cambodia was mentioned by

1471
01:15:28,879 --> 01:15:26,099
in brog know now during that period of

1472
01:15:32,569 --> 01:15:28,889
time during the war there was an

1473
01:15:36,950 --> 01:15:32,579
organization very black very very

1474
01:15:38,540 --> 01:15:36,960
top-secret at the time called Mac V SOG

1475
01:15:41,120 --> 01:15:38,550
I'll tell you what this is the cliff

1476
01:15:44,209 --> 01:15:41,130
hanger okay we'll explain more of how

1477
01:15:46,250 --> 01:15:44,219
this was structured with Don Ecker the

1478
01:15:51,540 --> 01:15:46,260
co-host is Chris O'Brien I'm gene

1479
01:15:51,550 --> 01:15:54,850
[Music]

1480
01:16:00,470 --> 01:15:58,010
Ray Perkins a reclusive veteran burned

1481
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out from the Gulf War lives tortured by

1482
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1483
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1484
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space and of a mysterious woman

1485
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1486
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1489
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1490
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are you tired of searching for great

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talk radio more important search the

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overall we are the gcn radio network

1570
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physicist and Friedman

1571
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you are listening to the gold standard

1572
01:20:18,620 --> 01:20:15,280
paranormal radio we're hanging on every

1573
01:20:21,750 --> 01:20:18,630
word from Don Ecker he's longtime UFO

1574
01:20:24,390 --> 01:20:21,760
investigative journalist host of dark

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01:20:27,930 --> 01:20:24,400
matters radio show forum moderator for

1576
01:20:30,930 --> 01:20:27,940
the podcast forums at forum podcast calm

1577
01:20:33,420 --> 01:20:30,940
I'm Jean Steinberg I'm the para cast the

1578
01:20:37,350 --> 01:20:33,430
co-host is Chris O'Brien we're exploring

1579
01:20:40,230 --> 01:20:37,360
the Phil and Brad no scandal his claim

1580
01:20:42,300 --> 01:20:40,240
of being in the military very

1581
01:20:44,160 --> 01:20:42,310
distinguished claim of being a

1582
01:20:46,890 --> 01:20:44,170
distinguished officer all this other

1583
01:20:51,560 --> 01:20:46,900
stuff going on and more of what Don

1584
01:20:55,110 --> 01:20:51,570
learned so Mack V SOG was the

1585
01:20:58,640 --> 01:20:55,120
organization they had three areas that

1586
01:21:01,950 --> 01:20:58,650
they were conducting clandestine

1587
01:21:03,930 --> 01:21:01,960
operations in and they would go into

1588
01:21:08,220 --> 01:21:03,940
these and incidentally they had an

1589
01:21:12,390 --> 01:21:08,230
extraordinarily high casualty rate God

1590
01:21:15,390 --> 01:21:12,400
alone and the army only know how many

1591
01:21:18,690 --> 01:21:15,400
bodies are still over there in Southeast

1592
01:21:21,570 --> 01:21:18,700
Asia on these clandestine operations

1593
01:21:23,940 --> 01:21:21,580
where these these men were killed and

1594
01:21:25,260 --> 01:21:23,950
we're question to ask you here when

1595
01:21:28,290 --> 01:21:25,270
you're on one of these missions and

1596
01:21:30,510 --> 01:21:28,300
you're lost in action what do they tell

1597
01:21:33,420 --> 01:21:30,520
the families that they would have died

1598
01:21:34,680 --> 01:21:33,430
in South Vietnam that's they won't say

1599
01:21:37,050 --> 01:21:34,690
what they were doing or anything

1600
01:21:39,780 --> 01:21:37,060
oh oh of course not no body body was

1601
01:21:42,510 --> 01:21:39,790
unrecoverable now since he claims

1602
01:21:46,770 --> 01:21:42,520
service in Cambodia he would have been a

1603
01:21:50,580 --> 01:21:46,780
part of McVie sod si si s or

1604
01:21:56,190 --> 01:21:50,590
command-and-control South they had CC n

1605
01:21:59,820 --> 01:21:56,200
CC C and CC s command and control north

1606
01:22:01,050 --> 01:21:59,830
central and south and the guys the

1607
01:22:04,950 --> 01:22:01,060
survivors

1608
01:22:08,700 --> 01:22:04,960
of these groups are very tight-knit they

1609
01:22:12,120 --> 01:22:08,710
all know each other okay

1610
01:22:16,160 --> 01:22:12,130
these these people that that claim that

1611
01:22:19,320 --> 01:22:16,170
service really it doesn't take long to

1612
01:22:22,290 --> 01:22:19,330
root them out if they're a phony so I

1613
01:22:24,770 --> 01:22:22,300
contacted this this fellow and he put

1614
01:22:28,860 --> 01:22:24,780
the word out through the Special Forces

1615
01:22:32,610 --> 01:22:28,870
Association now my contact lives in

1616
01:22:37,380 --> 01:22:32,620
Texas the Special Forces Association he

1617
01:22:41,220 --> 01:22:37,390
called back near Fort Bragg were SF you

1618
01:22:43,860 --> 01:22:41,230
know is and it went out worldwide well

1619
01:22:48,090 --> 01:22:43,870
the bottom line was and nobody had a

1620
01:22:51,030 --> 01:22:48,100
clue who Philip J in brog know was so he

1621
01:22:53,340 --> 01:22:51,040
got back to me and I had of course

1622
01:22:57,000 --> 01:22:53,350
already started to write up my paper and

1623
01:22:59,520 --> 01:22:57,010
that was basically the accumulation of

1624
01:23:03,510 --> 01:22:59,530
it that that was the end the guy in fact

1625
01:23:06,600 --> 01:23:03,520
was a phony and it's probably I might

1626
01:23:11,220 --> 01:23:06,610
add now guys it's probably a good thing

1627
01:23:15,180 --> 01:23:11,230
that it happened today and not 15 or 20

1628
01:23:19,170 --> 01:23:15,190
years ago because today you know most of

1629
01:23:24,000 --> 01:23:19,180
those those vets are in their mid to

1630
01:23:27,210 --> 01:23:24,010
late 60s or 70s okay I have known some

1631
01:23:29,100 --> 01:23:27,220
of these guys and 15 or 20 years ago

1632
01:23:31,860 --> 01:23:29,110
they might have decided to take a road

1633
01:23:34,230 --> 01:23:31,870
trip back to Connecticut to look fill up

1634
01:23:38,840 --> 01:23:34,240
personally but not so much anymore

1635
01:23:42,300 --> 01:23:38,850
so basically that did it for me I mean

1636
01:23:45,990 --> 01:23:42,310
academic fraud is certainly one thing

1637
01:23:48,180 --> 01:23:46,000
but when you're stealing valor from

1638
01:23:51,090 --> 01:23:48,190
people and and hey it's not like today

1639
01:23:53,190 --> 01:23:51,100
we're not involved in a number of

1640
01:23:56,120 --> 01:23:53,200
conflicts around the globe and perhaps

1641
01:24:00,210 --> 01:23:56,130
even here within the United States

1642
01:24:03,240 --> 01:24:00,220
there's only a thin line between some of

1643
01:24:05,430 --> 01:24:03,250
those those murderous terrorists that

1644
01:24:08,430 --> 01:24:05,440
are out there and the American civilian

1645
01:24:10,590 --> 01:24:08,440
public and it's the Armed Forces and law

1646
01:24:12,449 --> 01:24:10,600
enforcement that basically is is

1647
01:24:14,219 --> 01:24:12,459
standing firm against them

1648
01:24:18,390 --> 01:24:14,229
and there have been a lot of people in

1649
01:24:21,359 --> 01:24:18,400
the last 10 years that have died in

1650
01:24:25,319 --> 01:24:21,369
service in combat and what-have-you and

1651
01:24:27,779 --> 01:24:25,329
for somebody to claim those honors which

1652
01:24:30,689 --> 01:24:27,789
basically was nothing more than a self

1653
01:24:34,529 --> 01:24:30,699
anger and izing thing on his part to

1654
01:24:37,919 --> 01:24:34,539
make his presentation I guess that much

1655
01:24:40,290 --> 01:24:37,929
more desirable that just in my in my

1656
01:24:43,379 --> 01:24:40,300
book it gets no lower than that worse

1657
01:24:45,449 --> 01:24:43,389
Don it takes all the work he's done and

1658
01:24:47,729 --> 01:24:45,459
throws it into question you faked your

1659
01:24:49,679 --> 01:24:47,739
military credentials you faked your

1660
01:24:51,029 --> 01:24:49,689
educational credentials is there any

1661
01:24:53,850 --> 01:24:51,039
truth to anything he says

1662
01:24:56,100 --> 01:24:53,860
well that's it and I've got to tell you

1663
01:24:59,819 --> 01:24:56,110
I have started to go back and go through

1664
01:25:03,149 --> 01:24:59,829
a lot of things that that we have in our

1665
01:25:06,799 --> 01:25:03,159
archives that that came from in broad No

1666
01:25:10,679 --> 01:25:06,809
now I'm going to give you a scoop okay

1667
01:25:13,949 --> 01:25:10,689
because I had a telephone call from one

1668
01:25:17,640 --> 01:25:13,959
of the people that was instrumental in

1669
01:25:22,199 --> 01:25:17,650
helping to get this story out and there

1670
01:25:23,609 --> 01:25:22,209
may be yet another shoe that is going to

1671
01:25:28,219 --> 01:25:23,619
drop oh boy

1672
01:25:32,759 --> 01:25:28,229
and that involves at this point some

1673
01:25:35,669 --> 01:25:32,769
allegations of massive plagiarism that

1674
01:25:38,100 --> 01:25:35,679
very likely may in fact have been

1675
01:25:42,120 --> 01:25:38,110
conducted all I can tell you at this

1676
01:25:45,959 --> 01:25:42,130
point is that this is being investigated

1677
01:25:49,109 --> 01:25:45,969
very very carefully I just got the

1678
01:25:52,439 --> 01:25:49,119
information I am also looking into it

1679
01:25:54,689 --> 01:25:52,449
and quite frankly at this point all I

1680
01:25:57,569 --> 01:25:54,699
can say is boy am I can be glad when

1681
01:25:59,189 --> 01:25:57,579
this thing is finally laid to rest now

1682
01:26:01,350 --> 01:25:59,199
we'll have a lot of that information

1683
01:26:03,810 --> 01:26:01,360
over at the power cast forums at forum

1684
01:26:06,660 --> 01:26:03,820
dot the power cast come in the days to

1685
01:26:09,929 --> 01:26:06,670
come and hopefully that will be the end

1686
01:26:12,899 --> 01:26:09,939
of it it won't just raise other Hornets

1687
01:26:14,250 --> 01:26:12,909
in the nest but you never know sure now

1688
01:26:17,219 --> 01:26:14,260
the other question I would have is that

1689
01:26:19,529 --> 01:26:17,229
if we've got people like Umbraco rolling

1690
01:26:23,459 --> 01:26:19,539
around and I want to have you discussed

1691
01:26:25,839 --> 01:26:23,469
that email that post in a message board

1692
01:26:27,969 --> 01:26:25,849
in a moment how many other

1693
01:26:31,060 --> 01:26:27,979
secret fakers do we have out there who

1694
01:26:34,750 --> 01:26:31,070
also talk about phony credentials phony

1695
01:26:39,250 --> 01:26:34,760
experience phony evidence well that's

1696
01:26:41,409 --> 01:26:39,260
that's one thing about that's one thing

1697
01:26:43,719 --> 01:26:41,419
about this field gene and Chris and you

1698
01:26:47,460 --> 01:26:43,729
guys both know this as well as I do that

1699
01:26:48,629 --> 01:26:47,470
you never cease to be amazed at what

1700
01:26:52,179 --> 01:26:48,639
[Music]

1701
01:26:56,139 --> 01:26:52,189
peccadillo was going to pop out next you

1702
01:26:58,689 --> 01:26:56,149
know what I'm saying over the years you

1703
01:27:00,849 --> 01:26:58,699
know back in the early days of UFO

1704
01:27:05,679 --> 01:27:00,859
magazine when I was the director of

1705
01:27:10,389 --> 01:27:05,689
research I did not go out looking okay

1706
01:27:16,119 --> 01:27:10,399
to expose people that was not and never

1707
01:27:18,250 --> 01:27:16,129
was my intent but I felt then and and

1708
01:27:23,159 --> 01:27:18,260
still I mean if I'm being honest I still

1709
01:27:26,619 --> 01:27:23,169
feel this way today that nobody nobody

1710
01:27:29,770 --> 01:27:26,629
especially in areas that we would love

1711
01:27:33,549 --> 01:27:29,780
to have become involved in mainstream

1712
01:27:36,369 --> 01:27:33,559
science no one would ever dare to

1713
01:27:40,629 --> 01:27:36,379
publicly affiliate themselves with this

1714
01:27:44,619 --> 01:27:40,639
field until these people are in fact

1715
01:27:47,379 --> 01:27:44,629
cleaned out and that will I'm sorry to

1716
01:27:50,529 --> 01:27:47,389
say this I don't think that will ever

1717
01:27:54,129 --> 01:27:50,539
happen and my reason for saying that is

1718
01:27:57,969 --> 01:27:54,139
is quite simple anybody any Tom Dick

1719
01:28:02,109 --> 01:27:57,979
Harry or Jane can hang up a sign and

1720
01:28:05,949 --> 01:28:02,119
have and call themselves an investigator

1721
01:28:10,989 --> 01:28:05,959
or a hypnotherapist or god knows what

1722
01:28:14,409 --> 01:28:10,999
else and anybody can go out find a media

1723
01:28:19,679 --> 01:28:14,419
spotlight and spout nonsense and it

1724
01:28:24,069 --> 01:28:19,689
happens on a daily basis not to

1725
01:28:26,669 --> 01:28:24,079
necessarily name names and point come on

1726
01:28:29,500 --> 01:28:26,679
down go that go ahead name some names a

1727
01:28:32,770 --> 01:28:29,510
perfect case in point would be dr.

1728
01:28:36,140 --> 01:28:32,780
Steven Greer and a number of times will

1729
01:28:41,990 --> 01:28:36,150
tell press conferences back

1730
01:28:44,780 --> 01:28:42,000
his in ability to vet people that he is

1731
01:28:49,370 --> 01:28:44,790
passing off as experts hoping to get

1732
01:28:52,729 --> 01:28:49,380
things like congressional inquiries and

1733
01:28:55,820 --> 01:28:52,739
when you start to look at some of these

1734
01:29:00,800 --> 01:28:55,830
people and examine I mean hell it's

1735
01:29:05,330 --> 01:29:00,810
common sense you know if I had a group

1736
01:29:08,899 --> 01:29:05,340
of people that I was touting as being

1737
01:29:12,200 --> 01:29:08,909
former experts as jet pilots as

1738
01:29:14,780 --> 01:29:12,210
scientists physicists somebody that

1739
01:29:17,300 --> 01:29:14,790
worked in in a secret area of the

1740
01:29:20,979 --> 01:29:17,310
government that now years later is going

1741
01:29:24,979 --> 01:29:20,989
forward okay with information that

1742
01:29:27,500 --> 01:29:24,989
alleges that for example this contact by

1743
01:29:30,790 --> 01:29:27,510
the US government with extraterrestrial

1744
01:29:34,669 --> 01:29:30,800
entities I am going to vet these people

1745
01:29:36,439 --> 01:29:34,679
to the nth degree but first he doesn't

1746
01:29:38,720 --> 01:29:36,449
and that's another Bugaboo we've had

1747
01:29:41,479 --> 01:29:38,730
with people like Stephen Bassett and

1748
01:29:43,370 --> 01:29:41,489
course Greer and all these other people

1749
01:29:45,439 --> 01:29:43,380
we have Don Ecker on the show he vets

1750
01:29:48,380 --> 01:29:45,449
everyone even us the co-host is Chris

1751
01:29:49,460 --> 01:29:48,390
O'Brien I'm gene Steinberg you're in the

1752
01:29:55,000 --> 01:29:49,470
para cast

1753
01:29:57,200 --> 01:29:55,010
[Music]

1754
01:29:59,300 --> 01:29:57,210
graphic converter is the image

1755
01:30:01,970 --> 01:29:59,310
manipulation tool for the rest of us it

1756
01:30:03,919 --> 01:30:01,980
does not use any database you get full

1757
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control of all your files want to view

1758
01:30:08,390 --> 01:30:06,150
the images of a folder drag it into

1759
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graphic converter and a powerful browser

1760
01:30:12,830 --> 01:30:10,920
opens up to show your image files you

1761
01:30:14,899 --> 01:30:12,840
could use it for slideshows you could

1762
01:30:17,000 --> 01:30:14,909
use it to import images from digital

1763
01:30:18,950 --> 01:30:17,010
cameras or from scanners need to do some

1764
01:30:21,110 --> 01:30:18,960
image editing you can do that too in

1765
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graphic converter also print catalogs

1766
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convert from so many formats

1767
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I can't even list them download now to

1768
01:30:30,260 --> 01:30:27,449
see if graphic converter is good for you

1769
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like one and a half million other users

1770
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guess what you could save money when you

1771
01:30:36,439 --> 01:30:34,469
buy graphic converter use the coupon

1772
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code night I'll use the coupon code

1773
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night owl to get a special price for

1774
01:30:45,860 --> 01:30:41,489
graphic converter go to Lemke soft calm

1775
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that's Ellie MKE soft calm Lemke soft

1776
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1777
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1778
01:30:56,570 --> 01:30:54,300
life is having high levels of

1779
01:30:58,250 --> 01:30:56,580
glutathione this master antioxidant is

1780
01:31:00,410 --> 01:30:58,260
required by your body to stop free

1781
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radicals keep cells young remove

1782
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chemical and heavy metal toxins support

1783
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1784
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inflammation and much more the results

1785
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of optimal levels of glutathione in your

1786
01:31:13,250 --> 01:31:10,980
body are more mental and physical energy

1787
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stronger immune system greater endurance

1788
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and more do you know the number one

1789
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secret superfood that helps increase

1790
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your glutathione levels by 64 percent or

1791
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more it's unheated whey protein powder

1792
01:31:26,510 --> 01:31:24,330
from grass-fed cows this health food is

1793
01:31:28,970 --> 01:31:26,520
amazing in its ability to do so much for

1794
01:31:30,620 --> 01:31:28,980
virtually everyone introducing one world

1795
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way an industry-first

1796
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unheated whey protein powder from

1797
01:31:36,740 --> 01:31:34,739
grass-fed cows call eight eight eight

1798
01:31:38,570 --> 01:31:36,750
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1799
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that's eight eight eight nine eight

1800
01:31:49,149 --> 01:31:41,429
eight three three two five or visit one

1801
01:31:54,080 --> 01:31:51,860
are you tired of spending money for

1802
01:31:56,479 --> 01:31:54,090
metal caning lids year after year then

1803
01:31:58,970 --> 01:31:56,489
stop stop buying metal is and get

1804
01:32:01,550 --> 01:31:58,980
toddler reusable caning lids made of

1805
01:32:03,439 --> 01:32:01,560
USDA and FDA approved food grade plastic

1806
01:32:05,360 --> 01:32:03,449
Tattler canning lids let you safely

1807
01:32:07,100 --> 01:32:05,370
store emergency preparedness foods for

1808
01:32:08,630 --> 01:32:07,110
years traditional metal

1809
01:32:11,300 --> 01:32:08,640
they're single-use throwaways that

1810
01:32:13,220 --> 01:32:11,310
contain BPA but Tattler canning lids are

1811
01:32:15,470 --> 01:32:13,230
indefinitely reusable and guaranteed to

1812
01:32:17,960 --> 01:32:15,480
last a lifetime when used as designed

1813
01:32:20,690 --> 01:32:17,970
for home canning and contain no bpa

1814
01:32:22,190 --> 01:32:20,700
Tattler lids are dishwasher safe perfect

1815
01:32:24,260 --> 01:32:22,200
for standard pressure or water bath

1816
01:32:26,540 --> 01:32:24,270
canning eliminate food spoilage from

1817
01:32:29,240 --> 01:32:26,550
acid corrosion fit standard mason jars

1818
01:32:31,370 --> 01:32:29,250
and are proudly made in the USA place

1819
01:32:34,070 --> 01:32:31,380
orders by phone at eight seven seven

1820
01:32:36,710 --> 01:32:34,080
seven four seven two seven nine three or

1821
01:32:39,260 --> 01:32:36,720
go to reusable canning let's calm that's

1822
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one eight seven seven seven four seven

1823
01:32:43,490 --> 01:32:41,760
two seven nine three or go to reusable

1824
01:32:46,310 --> 01:32:43,500
canning lids calm that's reusable

1825
01:32:49,880 --> 01:32:46,320
canning let's calm Tattler reusable

1826
01:32:51,920 --> 01:32:49,890
canning lids the original since 1976 we

1827
01:32:53,720 --> 01:32:51,930
all know that berkey water purification

1828
01:32:56,090 --> 01:32:53,730
systems are the most trusted name in

1829
01:32:57,980 --> 01:32:56,100
water filtration as an authorized Berkey

1830
01:32:59,930 --> 01:32:57,990
dealer for over 6 years in serving

1831
01:33:02,420 --> 01:32:59,940
thousands of satisfied customers the

1832
01:33:04,430 --> 01:33:02,430
Berkey guy offers amazing specials for

1833
01:33:06,020 --> 01:33:04,440
berkey water filtration systems the

1834
01:33:08,090 --> 01:33:06,030
Berkey light systems include a set of

1835
01:33:10,070 --> 01:33:08,100
self-sterilizing and re cleanable black

1836
01:33:12,470 --> 01:33:10,080
purification elements that purify water

1837
01:33:14,720 --> 01:33:12,480
by removing chlorine pathogenic bacteria

1838
01:33:16,910 --> 01:33:14,730
cysts and parasites two non detectable

1839
01:33:18,980 --> 01:33:16,920
levels and remove harmful chemicals such

1840
01:33:20,840 --> 01:33:18,990
as herbicides and pesticides order the

1841
01:33:23,480 --> 01:33:20,850
Berkey light system today complete with

1842
01:33:25,280 --> 01:33:23,490
two black per key elements for only 231

1843
01:33:27,050 --> 01:33:25,290
dollars and the Berkey guy will ship

1844
01:33:28,730 --> 01:33:27,060
your order free of charge with the

1845
01:33:30,620 --> 01:33:28,740
purchase of a Berkey light the Berkey

1846
01:33:32,960 --> 01:33:30,630
guy is also offering is set of fluoride

1847
01:33:35,300 --> 01:33:32,970
and arsenic filters for only $39.99

1848
01:33:35,810 --> 01:33:35,310
that's over 30 percent off the retail

1849
01:33:37,880 --> 01:33:35,820
price

1850
01:33:40,340 --> 01:33:37,890
call the Berkey guy at one eight seven

1851
01:33:42,530 --> 01:33:40,350
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1852
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1853
01:33:47,570 --> 01:33:45,240
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1854
01:33:51,560 --> 01:33:47,580
online at Gober Keep Calm let's go

1855
01:33:53,720 --> 01:33:51,570
Berkey dot-com today the Jeezy and Radio

1856
01:33:57,710 --> 01:33:53,730
Network providing the world with

1857
01:34:02,770 --> 01:33:57,720
hard-hitting talk radio g-c

1858
01:34:19,750 --> 01:34:07,950
[Music]

1859
01:34:22,180 --> 01:34:19,760
you do because it's vetting time on the

1860
01:34:24,129 --> 01:34:22,190
power cast on eckers our guest I'm Jean

1861
01:34:27,370 --> 01:34:24,139
Steinberg the co-host is Chris O'Brien

1862
01:34:30,339 --> 01:34:27,380
so obviously we have situations like a

1863
01:34:33,609 --> 01:34:30,349
Steven Greer and of course Steve Bassett

1864
01:34:35,649 --> 01:34:33,619
they put people on the stage they put

1865
01:34:38,140 --> 01:34:35,659
good people on the stage they put people

1866
01:34:40,899 --> 01:34:38,150
who are questionable on the stage they

1867
01:34:45,459 --> 01:34:40,909
don't care well I have have a very good

1868
01:34:49,439 --> 01:34:45,469
friend out here who back in the 1960s

1869
01:34:52,780 --> 01:34:49,449
was in the US Air Force as an electronic

1870
01:34:56,109 --> 01:34:52,790
technician at one point we were

1871
01:35:00,250 --> 01:34:56,119
collaborating you know for years I've

1872
01:35:03,549 --> 01:35:00,260
been off and on working on lunar

1873
01:35:06,959 --> 01:35:03,559
phenomenon gene Chris you guys are both

1874
01:35:11,189 --> 01:35:06,969
aware of that I have through the years

1875
01:35:15,220 --> 01:35:11,199
uncovered some absolutely amazing

1876
01:35:19,689 --> 01:35:15,230
photographic evidence from of all places

1877
01:35:21,069 --> 01:35:19,699
early NASA lunar missions you know I'm

1878
01:35:23,439 --> 01:35:21,079
done I really want to go into this

1879
01:35:25,899 --> 01:35:23,449
because one of the personal Crusades

1880
01:35:28,089 --> 01:35:25,909
I've begun is to work with people who

1881
01:35:29,979 --> 01:35:28,099
have petitions to send to the

1882
01:35:31,180 --> 01:35:29,989
authorities to kind of restore the space

1883
01:35:33,250 --> 01:35:31,190
program I want to go into this but I

1884
01:35:36,370 --> 01:35:33,260
want to go back to one more thing

1885
01:35:39,189 --> 01:35:36,380
maybe the coda of the Phil and Brock

1886
01:35:42,399 --> 01:35:39,199
knows story there is a posting he

1887
01:35:44,770 --> 01:35:42,409
allegedly put on a certain message board

1888
01:35:48,850 --> 01:35:44,780
that will go unnamed now even before

1889
01:35:52,270 --> 01:35:48,860
that he sent an email to some people who

1890
01:35:55,600 --> 01:35:52,280
put on a online podcast where he says

1891
01:35:57,310 --> 01:35:55,610
the MIT degree was sealed it's kind of

1892
01:36:00,399 --> 01:35:57,320
like a juvenile you know a juvenile is

1893
01:36:01,959 --> 01:36:00,409
convicted of a petty crime so the

1894
01:36:05,049 --> 01:36:01,969
authorities say okay let's give this

1895
01:36:06,819 --> 01:36:05,059
person a chance to become an adult get

1896
01:36:08,799 --> 01:36:06,829
themselves together they sealed the

1897
01:36:11,649 --> 01:36:08,809
record but we have Phil and Brock no

1898
01:36:16,149 --> 01:36:11,659
claiming his record was sealed in that

1899
01:36:18,879 --> 01:36:16,159
one letter yeah Bob Lazar yeah Bob Lazar

1900
01:36:19,990 --> 01:36:18,889
is sealed all the records of his prey he

1901
01:36:22,480 --> 01:36:20,000
claimed he was a

1902
01:36:25,360 --> 01:36:22,490
at MIT too if I remember yeah what is it

1903
01:36:27,310 --> 01:36:25,370
about MIT I wonder also can MIT have

1904
01:36:29,740 --> 01:36:27,320
legal action Institute legal action

1905
01:36:31,600 --> 01:36:29,750
against people who go about claiming

1906
01:36:34,510 --> 01:36:31,610
this affiliation but okay so we have

1907
01:36:36,010 --> 01:36:34,520
that letter of a sealed degree and then

1908
01:36:38,290 --> 01:36:36,020
we have this thing that was posted in

1909
01:36:41,710 --> 01:36:38,300
that message board would you discuss it

1910
01:36:45,300 --> 01:36:41,720
for us done yeah you see when when I was

1911
01:36:49,600 --> 01:36:45,310
conducting my research into embroid no I

1912
01:36:56,800 --> 01:36:49,610
didn't do it behind his back okay I sent

1913
01:37:00,430 --> 01:36:56,810
him a very short but concise note to his

1914
01:37:04,600 --> 01:37:00,440
his email I know he got it

1915
01:37:08,290 --> 01:37:04,610
it never bounced back and I basically

1916
01:37:11,920 --> 01:37:08,300
said to him look I'm vetting these

1917
01:37:16,510 --> 01:37:11,930
special forces claims that you've made

1918
01:37:18,220 --> 01:37:16,520
and you know in light of all the other

1919
01:37:21,790 --> 01:37:18,230
problems you're having with your

1920
01:37:28,150 --> 01:37:21,800
academic credentials now is your

1921
01:37:30,610 --> 01:37:28,160
opportunity before you know I this to

1922
01:37:33,850 --> 01:37:30,620
contact me and basically give me any

1923
01:37:37,870 --> 01:37:33,860
mitigating circumstances or anything

1924
01:37:42,430 --> 01:37:37,880
else well he never did he never never

1925
01:37:45,490 --> 01:37:42,440
bothered to to contact me in any manner

1926
01:37:49,570 --> 01:37:45,500
or form this other area that you're

1927
01:37:52,480 --> 01:37:49,580
talking about this other board somebody

1928
01:37:56,230 --> 01:37:52,490
had sent me the link to that and I was

1929
01:37:58,780 --> 01:37:56,240
was waiting through these these messages

1930
01:38:02,530 --> 01:37:58,790
and there were there were quite a few up

1931
01:38:08,170 --> 01:38:02,540
there discussing this thing and this

1932
01:38:11,470 --> 01:38:08,180
other radio program basically had been

1933
01:38:14,560 --> 01:38:11,480
in touch with in brought know he had

1934
01:38:17,410 --> 01:38:14,570
been in touch with them and isn't it

1935
01:38:21,490 --> 01:38:17,420
strange how he never contacted us didn't

1936
01:38:23,820 --> 01:38:21,500
contact me didn't contact Chris nothing

1937
01:38:26,440 --> 01:38:23,830
knowing that this is happening this is

1938
01:38:28,720 --> 01:38:26,450
blowing up around him we didn't even

1939
01:38:30,310 --> 01:38:28,730
contact rosemary I mean his co-author

1940
01:38:32,350 --> 01:38:30,320
and a book that's supposed to be coming

1941
01:38:33,300 --> 01:38:32,360
out in October I mean this is really

1942
01:38:40,830 --> 01:38:33,310
tawdry

1943
01:38:42,540 --> 01:38:40,840
it's it's very this dis it's I'm

1944
01:38:47,490 --> 01:38:42,550
disgusted by this whole thing it's like

1945
01:38:50,610 --> 01:38:47,500
a you know the hubris the give me a word

1946
01:38:52,290 --> 01:38:50,620
here I'm just I'm baffled that that well

1947
01:38:56,370 --> 01:38:52,300
we have seven right away with this I'm

1948
01:38:59,280 --> 01:38:56,380
so long well yeah this you know and and

1949
01:39:02,010 --> 01:38:59,290
hey look you you guys are upset how do

1950
01:39:06,410 --> 01:39:02,020
you think I felt and you know I I had

1951
01:39:10,560 --> 01:39:06,420
also always been very complimentary

1952
01:39:13,110 --> 01:39:10,570
toward you know the work that I thought

1953
01:39:16,290 --> 01:39:13,120
he was conducting I mean this this is

1954
01:39:18,810 --> 01:39:16,300
something that and you know if you get

1955
01:39:22,170 --> 01:39:18,820
right down to it hey look I've bent over

1956
01:39:25,950 --> 01:39:22,180
backwards to try to give him an

1957
01:39:28,110 --> 01:39:25,960
opportunity to explain anything he

1958
01:39:31,110 --> 01:39:28,120
wanted to explain or anything else about

1959
01:39:33,990 --> 01:39:31,120
this and he didn't he didn't take

1960
01:39:38,010 --> 01:39:34,000
advantage of that so the day it was

1961
01:39:41,730 --> 01:39:38,020
either the day that my article was

1962
01:39:45,410 --> 01:39:41,740
published up on the para cast or the

1963
01:39:48,420 --> 01:39:45,420
very next day up on this website and

1964
01:39:50,430 --> 01:39:48,430
incidentally there there is a link in

1965
01:39:53,730 --> 01:39:50,440
the Dark Matters form on the para cast

1966
01:39:55,560 --> 01:39:53,740
in this message thread where you can you

1967
01:39:58,820 --> 01:39:55,570
can go and read it and and a couple of

1968
01:40:03,330 --> 01:39:58,830
people have even copied and pasted it

1969
01:40:06,990 --> 01:40:03,340
okay but hear this message popped up

1970
01:40:09,990 --> 01:40:07,000
that stated that yeah this is this is

1971
01:40:12,240 --> 01:40:10,000
Phil you know who and I wanted to

1972
01:40:15,960 --> 01:40:12,250
respond to all of this before my

1973
01:40:19,950 --> 01:40:15,970
internet is shut down and basically he

1974
01:40:23,190 --> 01:40:19,960
goes on to say that in essence you know

1975
01:40:25,740 --> 01:40:23,200
you people I I conducted all this

1976
01:40:27,780 --> 01:40:25,750
business about MIT and everything

1977
01:40:31,110 --> 01:40:27,790
because I knew you people for the most

1978
01:40:33,660 --> 01:40:31,120
part are too stupid to do anything

1979
01:40:36,720 --> 01:40:33,670
except sit around you want to read stuff

1980
01:40:38,520 --> 01:40:36,730
and be scared so hey I gave you stuff to

1981
01:40:42,810 --> 01:40:38,530
sit around and read and be scared over

1982
01:40:47,040 --> 01:40:42,820
and it was it basically was his thumbing

1983
01:40:50,700 --> 01:40:47,050
his nose at the public all the people

1984
01:40:52,850 --> 01:40:50,710
that purchased his books that held him

1985
01:40:57,270 --> 01:40:52,860
in high esteem high regard as a

1986
01:41:02,430 --> 01:40:57,280
legitimate researcher but then if now I

1987
01:41:07,980 --> 01:41:02,440
must stress okay I must stress that if

1988
01:41:12,060 --> 01:41:07,990
this in fact was in Prague no and I kind

1989
01:41:14,460 --> 01:41:12,070
of think it may be I'm leaning toward

1990
01:41:18,480 --> 01:41:14,470
the possibility that it in fact was him

1991
01:41:21,540 --> 01:41:18,490
I heard his voice very clearly in parts

1992
01:41:23,790 --> 01:41:21,550
of this is it possible somebody really

1993
01:41:27,120 --> 01:41:23,800
smart about the voices of ones writing

1994
01:41:29,790 --> 01:41:27,130
fake to this anything is possible Jean

1995
01:41:32,850 --> 01:41:29,800
sure anything is possible

1996
01:41:36,810 --> 01:41:32,860
but he directed part of this to me or at

1997
01:41:40,260 --> 01:41:36,820
least to Don this is what he said

1998
01:41:44,580 --> 01:41:40,270
one last thing done you are a great guy

1999
01:41:46,950 --> 01:41:44,590
if you want my military record dd-214 it

2000
01:41:50,850 --> 01:41:46,960
will show I was a medic in the Air Force

2001
01:41:54,090 --> 01:41:50,860
and did a tour in Indochina it might

2002
01:41:56,940 --> 01:41:54,100
show I was attached to the Army for a

2003
01:41:59,880 --> 01:41:56,950
while but I don't know when and where it

2004
01:42:04,230 --> 01:41:59,890
was all pretty disorganized I was part

2005
01:42:07,980 --> 01:42:04,240
of a specialty trained group of medics

2006
01:42:11,610 --> 01:42:07,990
much more than a corpsman more than a

2007
01:42:15,000 --> 01:42:11,620
nurse but less than a doctor I was

2008
01:42:17,340 --> 01:42:15,010
primarily stationed in Thailand but was

2009
01:42:20,370 --> 01:42:17,350
attached to a number of army units over

2010
01:42:24,060 --> 01:42:20,380
the tour I believe I was in every

2011
01:42:28,110 --> 01:42:24,070
country in the area and then he says

2012
01:42:31,170 --> 01:42:28,120
something that is very bizarre and I

2013
01:42:33,690 --> 01:42:31,180
I'll tell you one of the reasons that I

2014
01:42:36,780 --> 01:42:33,700
I think this in fact may have been him

2015
01:42:40,230 --> 01:42:36,790
was because somebody else that knew him

2016
01:42:43,650 --> 01:42:40,240
very well told me that he had relayed

2017
01:42:46,820 --> 01:42:43,660
this story to them okay

2018
01:42:51,630 --> 01:42:46,830
is that at one point I was punished an

2019
01:42:59,220 --> 01:42:51,640
article 15 and had to run the venereal

2020
01:43:00,390 --> 01:42:59,230
disease clinic for a week you know now

2021
01:43:03,360 --> 01:43:00,400
when I read there

2022
01:43:08,010 --> 01:43:03,370
and I thought well if this is in fact

2023
01:43:10,590 --> 01:43:08,020
from him okay then I I would have to

2024
01:43:12,990 --> 01:43:10,600
guess that the pressure got to him and

2025
01:43:15,060 --> 01:43:13,000
he had to be in his third or fourth

2026
01:43:17,820 --> 01:43:15,070
bottle of Merlot when it when he was

2027
01:43:20,820 --> 01:43:17,830
writing this thing because typos and the

2028
01:43:24,990 --> 01:43:20,830
misspellings were a little uh yeah we're

2029
01:43:28,590 --> 01:43:25,000
little pointed a little rough and it was

2030
01:43:31,350 --> 01:43:28,600
a real rambling diatribe so you know hey

2031
01:43:34,940 --> 01:43:31,360
who knows maybe as you say just

2032
01:43:37,560 --> 01:43:34,950
frustration but you say those particular

2033
01:43:38,610 --> 01:43:37,570
ideas and information about his military

2034
01:43:41,400 --> 01:43:38,620
background

2035
01:43:46,050 --> 01:43:41,410
that's what rings true it seems to be

2036
01:43:49,020 --> 01:43:46,060
his voice well the fact that I think

2037
01:43:52,290 --> 01:43:49,030
it's it's possible that it was actually

2038
01:43:56,460 --> 01:43:52,300
him that did it yeah now you know I had

2039
01:44:00,200 --> 01:43:56,470
my telephone number and he he has my

2040
01:44:04,950 --> 01:44:00,210
email address and you know I'll just be

2041
01:44:07,170 --> 01:44:04,960
be very upfront with what I think has

2042
01:44:10,830 --> 01:44:07,180
happened now he got caught

2043
01:44:14,870 --> 01:44:10,840
he's embarrassed not only embarrassed

2044
01:44:17,670 --> 01:44:14,880
he's shamed should be rightfully so and

2045
01:44:18,630 --> 01:44:17,680
he's basically running away and hiding

2046
01:44:21,930 --> 01:44:18,640
now

2047
01:44:25,110 --> 01:44:21,940
and I seriously doubt that we're gonna

2048
01:44:27,120 --> 01:44:25,120
hear anything from from him anytime soon

2049
01:44:29,490 --> 01:44:27,130
I could be wrong but but that would be

2050
01:44:31,410 --> 01:44:29,500
my guess at this point sometimes people

2051
01:44:34,470 --> 01:44:31,420
unfortunately resurface after being

2052
01:44:36,600 --> 01:44:34,480
exposed a few years later we have dr.

2053
01:44:38,610 --> 01:44:36,610
joining us I'm gene Steinberg the

2054
01:44:47,040 --> 01:44:38,620
co-host is Chris O'Brien you're in the

2055
01:44:48,540 --> 01:44:47,050
para cast hi Ted Anderson announcing a

2056
01:44:51,060 --> 01:44:48,550
great way to listen to radio on the

2057
01:44:53,220 --> 01:44:51,070
telephone by calling seven six zero five

2058
01:44:55,200 --> 01:44:53,230
six nine seventy seven hundred you'll be

2059
01:44:57,960 --> 01:44:55,210
hearing juicy and live.com programs in

2060
01:45:00,120 --> 01:44:57,970
seconds come to GCN live.com find your

2061
01:45:02,790 --> 01:45:00,130
favorite host dedicated phone number and

2062
01:45:05,070 --> 01:45:02,800
hear them 24/7 you heard me right every

2063
01:45:07,410 --> 01:45:05,080
show has a dedicated phone number stop

2064
01:45:09,540 --> 01:45:07,420
by GC and live.com and bookmark their

2065
01:45:11,660 --> 01:45:09,550
number today and again that's seven six

2066
01:45:13,980 --> 01:45:11,670
old five six nine seventy seven hundred

2067
01:45:15,360 --> 01:45:13,990
hi this is Ted Anderson have you ever

2068
01:45:16,860 --> 01:45:15,370
wondered why banks stockbrokers

2069
01:45:18,480 --> 01:45:16,870
investment advisors won't talk about

2070
01:45:20,190 --> 01:45:18,490
gold IRAs they've been available since

2071
01:45:21,690 --> 01:45:20,200
nineteen eighty six yet the financial

2072
01:45:22,980 --> 01:45:21,700
industry won't recognize the value of

2073
01:45:24,720 --> 01:45:22,990
gold for your retirement

2074
01:45:26,400 --> 01:45:24,730
gold has outperformed paper investments

2075
01:45:27,540 --> 01:45:26,410
yet don't worried about IRAs if you

2076
01:45:44,209 --> 01:45:27,550
would like to have gold for your

2077
01:45:50,300 --> 01:45:47,209
welcome back to the pear cast the gold

2078
01:45:58,670 --> 01:45:50,310
standard of paranormal radio and now

2079
01:46:00,140 --> 01:45:58,680
here's Jean Steinberg we're in the final

2080
01:46:02,720 --> 01:46:00,150
hour with Don Ecker

2081
01:46:05,120 --> 01:46:02,730
he's host of a radio show called Dark

2082
01:46:07,220 --> 01:46:05,130
Matters you go to Dark Matters radio.com

2083
01:46:07,910 --> 01:46:07,230
you find more information is that

2084
01:46:11,420 --> 01:46:07,920
correct on

2085
01:46:13,340 --> 01:46:11,430
yes sir Dark Matters radio I'm Jean

2086
01:46:16,580 --> 01:46:13,350
Steinberg the co-host is Chris O'Brien

2087
01:46:19,130 --> 01:46:16,590
exploring the fakes the frauds in the

2088
01:46:20,750 --> 01:46:19,140
UFO field now fake credentials aren't

2089
01:46:22,850 --> 01:46:20,760
unusual I don't know if you ever heard

2090
01:46:25,280 --> 01:46:22,860
of a guy named butch Witkowski from

2091
01:46:28,090 --> 01:46:25,290
Pennsylvania I can tell you all about

2092
01:46:31,490 --> 01:46:28,100
him yeah okay he's somebody else who

2093
01:46:33,290 --> 01:46:31,500
claimed to have certain credentials such

2094
01:46:36,680 --> 01:46:33,300
as being a police officer and then we

2095
01:46:39,320 --> 01:46:36,690
heard from a private investigator it was

2096
01:46:41,330 --> 01:46:39,330
all a fake now butch had been on the

2097
01:46:43,040 --> 01:46:41,340
power cast one some years back and we

2098
01:46:45,650 --> 01:46:43,050
gave him a good reception he seemed to

2099
01:46:47,840 --> 01:46:45,660
be a reasonable person with reasonable

2100
01:46:50,300 --> 01:46:47,850
background and I wrote him and said

2101
01:46:51,740 --> 01:46:50,310
would you want to defend yourself and he

2102
01:46:53,900 --> 01:46:51,750
says no I'm getting out of the field

2103
01:46:56,200 --> 01:46:53,910
I've given it up gonna spend time with

2104
01:46:59,000 --> 01:46:56,210
my family then a few months later he

2105
01:47:01,430 --> 01:46:59,010
resurfaces gonna be at a UFO convention

2106
01:47:04,220 --> 01:47:01,440
what do you know about him well as a

2107
01:47:07,670 --> 01:47:04,230
matter of fact I have a phony up

2108
01:47:11,750 --> 01:47:07,680
photograph from wachowski showing

2109
01:47:14,630 --> 01:47:11,760
himself in a police uniform and I also

2110
01:47:18,229 --> 01:47:14,640
have his criminal record

2111
01:47:21,350 --> 01:47:18,239
Oh oh yeah oh yeah I have his criminal

2112
01:47:24,470 --> 01:47:21,360
record I haven't really done anything

2113
01:47:26,420 --> 01:47:24,480
with this the guy's not out here I

2114
01:47:30,050 --> 01:47:26,430
haven't had any contact with him I've

2115
01:47:33,020 --> 01:47:30,060
had nobody that has basically you know

2116
01:47:36,050 --> 01:47:33,030
even discussed him he was kind of a

2117
01:47:38,689 --> 01:47:36,060
flash in the pan if you remember right

2118
01:47:41,450 --> 01:47:38,699
after he was on the para cast and you

2119
01:47:44,540 --> 01:47:41,460
interviewed him part of what he was

2120
01:47:47,000 --> 01:47:44,550
talking about dealt with human

2121
01:47:51,620 --> 01:47:47,010
mutilations now back in the very very

2122
01:47:54,830 --> 01:47:51,630
early days of my involvement in the UFO

2123
01:47:56,640 --> 01:47:54,840
field you may recall and I know Chris

2124
01:48:00,060 --> 01:47:56,650
you do because we've discussed

2125
01:48:02,820 --> 01:48:00,070
that in those early days I was known

2126
01:48:05,939 --> 01:48:02,830
primarily for my research into

2127
01:48:09,510 --> 01:48:05,949
mutilations and more specifically the

2128
01:48:12,120 --> 01:48:09,520
phenomenon of human mutilations and as a

2129
01:48:15,060 --> 01:48:12,130
matter of fact what Kowski talked about

2130
01:48:20,189 --> 01:48:15,070
that in a note that he had put up there

2131
01:48:22,350 --> 01:48:20,199
and he had recounted several cases

2132
01:48:25,620 --> 01:48:22,360
purported cases that have been in the

2133
01:48:29,399 --> 01:48:25,630
field for a long time that I knew to be

2134
01:48:32,640 --> 01:48:29,409
absolute bunk one of them involved a

2135
01:48:36,180 --> 01:48:32,650
mutilation that allegedly happened down

2136
01:48:39,959 --> 01:48:36,190
in white sands that was totally you know

2137
01:48:44,580 --> 01:48:39,969
that was totally fabricated and then he

2138
01:48:47,790 --> 01:48:44,590
also recounted another infamous case

2139
01:48:50,010 --> 01:48:47,800
from the early days the very dawn of the

2140
01:48:53,280 --> 01:48:50,020
Dark Age of ufology if you will

2141
01:48:56,160 --> 01:48:53,290
back during the time that John Lear came

2142
01:48:57,919 --> 01:48:56,170
out with his original Lear document

2143
01:49:01,709 --> 01:48:57,929
paper and 88-89

2144
01:49:02,280 --> 01:49:01,719
this involved a once again now listen

2145
01:49:04,680 --> 01:49:02,290
closely

2146
01:49:08,100 --> 01:49:04,690
another quote-unquote green beret

2147
01:49:13,100 --> 01:49:08,110
captain by the name of William English

2148
01:49:17,310 --> 01:49:13,110
that had been on a clandestine operation

2149
01:49:20,610 --> 01:49:17,320
into Laos to recover bodies from a

2150
01:49:24,000 --> 01:49:20,620
downed b-52 bomber that had been knocked

2151
01:49:26,729 --> 01:49:24,010
down by a UFO and the bodies were

2152
01:49:29,970 --> 01:49:26,739
mutilated yeah we were still strapped in

2153
01:49:35,040 --> 01:49:29,980
their seats supposedly right well okay

2154
01:49:37,649 --> 01:49:35,050
now I knew this guy bill English I knew

2155
01:49:40,979 --> 01:49:37,659
from the get-go that this guy was as

2156
01:49:46,140 --> 01:49:40,989
phony as a $3 bill he was originally

2157
01:49:49,169 --> 01:49:46,150
touted by Lear I knew within five

2158
01:49:52,979 --> 01:49:49,179
minutes after physically meeting him he

2159
01:49:56,790 --> 01:49:52,989
was was at Vegas in 89 at the MUFON

2160
01:49:58,140 --> 01:49:56,800
symposium the guy that brought him there

2161
01:50:01,800 --> 01:49:58,150
was a fellow by the name of dick

2162
01:50:06,060 --> 01:50:01,810
Scheffler I've known dick fer also you

2163
01:50:09,149 --> 01:50:06,070
know many many many years and after I

2164
01:50:09,940 --> 01:50:09,159
talked to this guy and I told I told Vic

2165
01:50:13,810 --> 01:50:09,950
I said this

2166
01:50:16,570 --> 01:50:13,820
is not the real deal and basically then

2167
01:50:19,270 --> 01:50:16,580
everything about him fell apart and I

2168
01:50:22,120 --> 01:50:19,280
could go on and on into this but English

2169
01:50:26,050 --> 01:50:22,130
was a nut was another guy that basically

2170
01:50:27,940 --> 01:50:26,060
disappeared from the UFO field so you

2171
01:50:30,910 --> 01:50:27,950
know these flash-in-the-pan

2172
01:50:34,000 --> 01:50:30,920
extraordinary stories periodically they

2173
01:50:35,440 --> 01:50:34,010
do pop up and if you know what you're

2174
01:50:36,970 --> 01:50:35,450
doing usually you can make a

2175
01:50:38,740 --> 01:50:36,980
determination on whether it was

2176
01:50:42,880 --> 01:50:38,750
something there or not but I told what

2177
01:50:46,960 --> 01:50:42,890
Kowski about this now I talked to with

2178
01:50:50,140 --> 01:50:46,970
Kowski on the phone and also ended up

2179
01:50:54,430 --> 01:50:50,150
bringing him on Dark Matters radio and

2180
01:50:57,460 --> 01:50:54,440
then I was contacted by the same private

2181
01:50:58,210 --> 01:50:57,470
investigator Jane that was in touch with

2182
01:51:01,450 --> 01:50:58,220
you

2183
01:51:03,670 --> 01:51:01,460
right and I told this guy I said now

2184
01:51:07,000 --> 01:51:03,680
what is it you're telling me because at

2185
01:51:12,040 --> 01:51:07,010
that point what Kowski was starting to

2186
01:51:15,240 --> 01:51:12,050
make a name for himself in a case of a

2187
01:51:18,370 --> 01:51:15,250
hunter back in in Pennsylvania that

2188
01:51:21,700 --> 01:51:18,380
according to what he was saying at the

2189
01:51:25,120 --> 01:51:21,710
time was an alleged mutilation victim

2190
01:51:27,370 --> 01:51:25,130
and I said well okay hey I'll tell you

2191
01:51:30,400 --> 01:51:27,380
what I'd be very interested in taking a

2192
01:51:34,420 --> 01:51:30,410
look at what you've dug up if you would

2193
01:51:38,320 --> 01:51:34,430
be so kind as to send me excuse me your

2194
01:51:41,890 --> 01:51:38,330
information he did and I started going

2195
01:51:45,040 --> 01:51:41,900
through this and it was believe me just

2196
01:51:47,380 --> 01:51:45,050
another case of total garbage there you

2197
01:51:50,800 --> 01:51:47,390
go another one down the dust down the

2198
01:51:52,900 --> 01:51:50,810
drain people like you want to give up

2199
01:51:54,910 --> 01:51:52,910
UFO research but you know you were on

2200
01:51:56,500 --> 01:51:54,920
the power casts a couple of years back

2201
01:51:58,720 --> 01:51:56,510
announcing your retirement from the

2202
01:52:00,700 --> 01:51:58,730
field this was a head of resuming your

2203
01:52:02,980 --> 01:52:00,710
radio show right and now you're

2204
01:52:05,350 --> 01:52:02,990
investigating these people like Phil and

2205
01:52:07,480 --> 01:52:05,360
Bragg know so you're never gonna give it

2206
01:52:10,870 --> 01:52:07,490
up are you I feel like Michael Corleone

2207
01:52:14,170 --> 01:52:10,880
you know just when you think you're out

2208
01:52:15,760 --> 01:52:14,180
they pull you back in and that

2209
01:52:18,010 --> 01:52:15,770
unfortunately is what happened but I'll

2210
01:52:19,530 --> 01:52:18,020
tell you what after but after this is

2211
01:52:22,020 --> 01:52:19,540
said and done man I'm

2212
01:52:24,900 --> 01:52:22,030
up and back now because this is no fun

2213
01:52:28,500 --> 01:52:24,910
this this entire stolen valerie thing i

2214
01:52:31,470 --> 01:52:28,510
was shocked and and i mean this and and

2215
01:52:34,110 --> 01:52:31,480
hey you guys can go up and and read a

2216
01:52:37,620 --> 01:52:34,120
note that I put up there and that yeah I

2217
01:52:40,590 --> 01:52:37,630
said you you guys probably read that

2218
01:52:43,730 --> 01:52:40,600
note that I put up in the thread after I

2219
01:52:48,380 --> 01:52:43,740
publish my paper where I just totally

2220
01:52:52,140 --> 01:52:48,390
expressed my disgust over this because

2221
01:52:54,930 --> 01:52:52,150
you know it drug up feelings and

2222
01:52:58,440 --> 01:52:54,940
emotions out of me that I've been trying

2223
01:53:00,870 --> 01:52:58,450
to bury for over thirty years especially

2224
01:53:04,260 --> 01:53:00,880
in connection with the stolen valor

2225
01:53:06,660 --> 01:53:04,270
Vietnam thing and I'll tell you man it

2226
01:53:07,400 --> 01:53:06,670
I'm just now starting to feel human

2227
01:53:10,380 --> 01:53:07,410
again

2228
01:53:13,470 --> 01:53:10,390
after this is all said and done because

2229
01:53:17,640 --> 01:53:13,480
I I was stomping around here like a bear

2230
01:53:21,360 --> 01:53:17,650
with a sore body part you know for days

2231
01:53:24,510 --> 01:53:21,370
my wife would tell you this this really

2232
01:53:26,940 --> 01:53:24,520
became aggravating Vickie probably

2233
01:53:28,910 --> 01:53:26,950
didn't appreciate the the process that

2234
01:53:32,010 --> 01:53:28,920
you were going through but I'm sure she

2235
01:53:33,720 --> 01:53:32,020
she understood it I mean this this is

2236
01:53:36,120 --> 01:53:33,730
big stuff I mean most people out there

2237
01:53:37,590 --> 01:53:36,130
don't realize that those of us that have

2238
01:53:40,080 --> 01:53:37,600
been involved in this field fairly

2239
01:53:42,920 --> 01:53:40,090
intensively for the last twenty

2240
01:53:46,860 --> 01:53:42,930
twenty-five years I mean this this is a

2241
01:53:49,560 --> 01:53:46,870
this is a low blow and you know we have

2242
01:53:51,810 --> 01:53:49,570
to get beyond it I think it's it's Lance

2243
01:53:54,810 --> 01:53:51,820
has done a great job and reminding us

2244
01:53:56,430 --> 01:53:54,820
that we need to be self policing I just

2245
01:53:58,140 --> 01:53:56,440
hate the thought of having to like vet

2246
01:53:59,580 --> 01:53:58,150
everybody that we get on the parrot cast

2247
01:54:02,670 --> 01:53:59,590
gene we're gonna have to what you know

2248
01:54:04,350 --> 01:54:02,680
find out if they're really you know

2249
01:54:06,540 --> 01:54:04,360
credentialed in the way that they stated

2250
01:54:08,010 --> 01:54:06,550
they state or tout themselves well you

2251
01:54:09,810 --> 01:54:08,020
know we have to use our citizen

2252
01:54:13,110 --> 01:54:09,820
investigators out there because we don't

2253
01:54:15,440 --> 01:54:13,120
have the staff no radio show except

2254
01:54:18,210 --> 01:54:15,450
maybe one or two of those big talk show

2255
01:54:20,010 --> 01:54:18,220
the ones where the host gets four

2256
01:54:22,500 --> 01:54:20,020
hundred million dollars a year they have

2257
01:54:24,270 --> 01:54:22,510
a staff the rest of us even coast to

2258
01:54:25,650 --> 01:54:24,280
coast they have a staff of one or two

2259
01:54:28,680 --> 01:54:25,660
people that's all they don't have the

2260
01:54:31,620 --> 01:54:28,690
staffs to vet every guess so we need our

2261
01:54:33,419 --> 01:54:31,630
listeners listeners if you have evidence

2262
01:54:36,540 --> 01:54:33,429
that any of the guests we

2263
01:54:39,450 --> 01:54:36,550
on are not what they claim to be send

2264
01:54:41,700 --> 01:54:39,460
that evidence to me or Chris news at the

2265
01:54:44,640 --> 01:54:41,710
power cast comm news of the power cast

2266
01:54:46,260 --> 01:54:44,650
calm we'll look it over we'll send it

2267
01:54:48,510 --> 01:54:46,270
off even the Lance Moody have him look

2268
01:54:50,700 --> 01:54:48,520
it over Don Ecker people who have been

2269
01:54:53,160 --> 01:54:50,710
doing investigations will try to find

2270
01:54:55,530 --> 01:54:53,170
out what's going on and we will report

2271
01:54:57,930 --> 01:54:55,540
back to you and we take no prisoners

2272
01:54:59,370 --> 01:54:57,940
obviously we've we've had people here

2273
01:55:01,560 --> 01:54:59,380
have been guests on the show we gave

2274
01:55:04,200 --> 01:55:01,570
them a welcome they turned out to be

2275
01:55:09,020 --> 01:55:04,210
fakes and we report that fact is this a

2276
01:55:13,200 --> 01:55:09,030
paid or unpaid position lies it's unpaid

2277
01:55:16,250 --> 01:55:13,210
we have a budget for the show remember -

2278
01:55:19,649 --> 01:55:16,260
zero yet you get what you pay for pal

2279
01:55:21,350 --> 01:55:19,659
unfortunately Don Ecker joins us we

2280
01:55:24,660 --> 01:55:21,360
didn't pay for him but he's a treasure

2281
01:55:26,430 --> 01:55:24,670
of course my family said that to me too

2282
01:55:30,120 --> 01:55:26,440
but in my case they said he's a treasure

2283
01:55:30,540 --> 01:55:30,130
let's bury him I'm kidding bad 1940s

2284
01:55:32,790 --> 01:55:30,550
joke

2285
01:55:42,480 --> 01:55:32,800
Chris O'Brien's the co-host I'm gene

2286
01:55:46,850 --> 01:55:44,290
[Music]

2287
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your doctor your accountant and even the

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2291
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2302
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2303
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2310
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2311
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three zero what are you waiting for your

2312
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fate awaits Gold if you listen to the

2313
01:56:45,979 --> 01:56:44,130
radio watch TV or surf the net you're

2314
01:56:48,229 --> 01:56:45,989
hearing about gold eventually you will

2315
01:56:50,060 --> 01:56:48,239
ask yourself is gold right for me the

2316
01:56:51,500 --> 01:56:50,070
answer might surprise you we protect

2317
01:56:53,629 --> 01:56:51,510
ourselves and our families for many

2318
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things you have medical insurance is

2319
01:56:57,229 --> 01:56:55,260
your home ensure you carry life

2320
01:56:59,089 --> 01:56:57,239
insurance how about financial insurance

2321
01:57:01,339 --> 01:56:59,099
if you own gold then the answer is yes

2322
01:57:02,689 --> 01:57:01,349
if you don't own gold the question is

2323
01:57:05,390 --> 01:57:02,699
why don't you have financial insurance

2324
01:57:06,979 --> 01:57:05,400
we put our faith in things we trust do

2325
01:57:09,140 --> 01:57:06,989
you trust the dollar you trust the

2326
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economy you trust the government gold

2327
01:57:12,709 --> 01:57:10,710
has always been something you can trust

2328
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for thousands of years people have put

2329
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their faith in gold where will you put

2330
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your faith now is the time to protect

2331
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yourself and your family call Midas

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2360
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2361
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we are the gcn radio network we want to

2362
01:59:58,690 --> 01:59:56,450
hear from you if you have a comment or

2363
02:00:02,020 --> 01:59:58,700
question about the pair cast send it to

2364
02:00:05,830 --> 02:00:02,030
news at the para cast com

2365
02:00:07,720 --> 02:00:05,840
that's news at the para cast calm and

2366
02:00:10,660 --> 02:00:07,730
don't forget to visit our famous pair of

2367
02:00:13,540 --> 02:00:10,670
cast community forums at forum dot the

2368
02:00:20,590 --> 02:00:13,550
para cast com get in on all the action

2369
02:00:22,750 --> 02:00:20,600
at forum dot the para cast com we're

2370
02:00:24,850 --> 02:00:22,760
back with Don Ecker co-host is Chris

2371
02:00:28,870 --> 02:00:24,860
O'Brien I'm gene Steinberg you're in the

2372
02:00:31,360 --> 02:00:28,880
para cast and maybe we should segue from

2373
02:00:34,960 --> 02:00:31,370
the fakes the phonies in the UFO field

2374
02:00:38,650 --> 02:00:34,970
to go to one of da necker's abiding

2375
02:00:41,680 --> 02:00:38,660
interests lunar mysteries and let me

2376
02:00:43,870 --> 02:00:41,690
just frame this in one way I've had some

2377
02:00:46,630 --> 02:00:43,880
discussions not just here on the para

2378
02:00:49,450 --> 02:00:46,640
cast on my technology show the tech

2379
02:00:51,670 --> 02:00:49,460
night out live we talked about what

2380
02:00:55,390 --> 02:00:51,680
looks to be almost the death of the

2381
02:00:57,880 --> 02:00:55,400
space program back in 1969 we land on

2382
02:01:02,020 --> 02:00:57,890
the moon we all expected by the year

2383
02:01:04,630 --> 02:01:02,030
2000 or 2001 we're gonna be to the other

2384
02:01:07,390 --> 02:01:04,640
planets never happened we have the Space

2385
02:01:09,760 --> 02:01:07,400
Shuttle kind of a pathetic continuation

2386
02:01:12,610 --> 02:01:09,770
of the space program from the 1980s it's

2387
02:01:15,130 --> 02:01:12,620
dying now there's a petition out there

2388
02:01:16,930 --> 02:01:15,140
lots of petitions out there to bring

2389
02:01:19,450 --> 02:01:16,940
back the space program but it looks like

2390
02:01:22,450 --> 02:01:19,460
nobody in Washington has the stomach for

2391
02:01:25,030 --> 02:01:22,460
it they're busy yapping about deficit

2392
02:01:27,220 --> 02:01:25,040
reduction that's important not wasting

2393
02:01:30,250 --> 02:01:27,230
money that's important but they can't

2394
02:01:33,820 --> 02:01:30,260
find the money to do the most important

2395
02:01:37,360 --> 02:01:33,830
thing for the human race to explore the

2396
02:01:39,880 --> 02:01:37,370
Stars I mean let's get G EDA to you know

2397
02:01:43,090 --> 02:01:39,890
let's close some loopholes so a company

2398
02:01:46,030 --> 02:01:43,100
huge conglomerate like GE pays more than

2399
02:01:48,430 --> 02:01:46,040
no taxes I mean no I don't want to get

2400
02:01:50,020 --> 02:01:48,440
political here but you know something

2401
02:01:51,910 --> 02:01:50,030
something ain't right in the way this

2402
02:01:54,130 --> 02:01:51,920
whole system is set up and and there's

2403
02:01:56,530 --> 02:01:54,140
plenty of money out there it just has to

2404
02:01:59,060 --> 02:01:56,540
be allocated properly I think more

2405
02:02:01,790 --> 02:01:59,070
importantly there's like a lack of

2406
02:02:03,380 --> 02:02:01,800
vision right now in terms of space

2407
02:02:06,680 --> 02:02:03,390
exploration and we really need to have

2408
02:02:10,250 --> 02:02:06,690
somebody spearhead a visionary statement

2409
02:02:12,680 --> 02:02:10,260
or some sort of idea to get us going

2410
02:02:15,380 --> 02:02:12,690
forward and get us out there to see to

2411
02:02:17,330 --> 02:02:15,390
see the cosmos how do you feel about all

2412
02:02:19,250 --> 02:02:17,340
this Don and the question I guess to ask

2413
02:02:21,440 --> 02:02:19,260
you with these lunar mysteries of

2414
02:02:24,830 --> 02:02:21,450
strange things on the moon what about

2415
02:02:26,450 --> 02:02:24,840
that off repeated rumor that we didn't

2416
02:02:28,100 --> 02:02:26,460
go back to the moon that we're not going

2417
02:02:29,600 --> 02:02:28,110
to go back to the moon because remember

2418
02:02:32,630 --> 02:02:29,610
now the next step in space exploration

2419
02:02:36,230 --> 02:02:32,640
is to go to an asteroid and maybe to

2420
02:02:38,990 --> 02:02:36,240
Mars not to the moon were we warned off

2421
02:02:42,890 --> 02:02:39,000
well you know now the moon has always

2422
02:02:47,750 --> 02:02:42,900
held a deep fascination for me and and I

2423
02:02:53,240 --> 02:02:47,760
guess I can actually trace it back to 62

2424
02:02:56,600 --> 02:02:53,250
63 I vividly remember President Kennedy

2425
02:02:58,840 --> 02:02:56,610
talking about we were going to send a

2426
02:03:02,090 --> 02:02:58,850
man to the moon and return him safely

2427
02:03:05,540 --> 02:03:02,100
you know right very very soon after he

2428
02:03:09,290 --> 02:03:05,550
took office and when I was 13 years old

2429
02:03:13,460 --> 02:03:09,300
my parents bought me a telescope for

2430
02:03:17,020 --> 02:03:13,470
Christmas now I can remember taking that

2431
02:03:21,680 --> 02:03:17,030
outside setting it up in the backyard in

2432
02:03:24,020 --> 02:03:21,690
December and I'm from the East Coast so

2433
02:03:26,240 --> 02:03:24,030
I mean you know when I when I say

2434
02:03:29,840 --> 02:03:26,250
December we're talking about six inches

2435
02:03:31,520 --> 02:03:29,850
of snow and that kind of stuff but I can

2436
02:03:33,440 --> 02:03:31,530
remember setting that thing up and the

2437
02:03:34,670 --> 02:03:33,450
first time I looked through that

2438
02:03:38,300 --> 02:03:34,680
telescope at the moon

2439
02:03:41,240 --> 02:03:38,310
I was just transfixed I couldn't believe

2440
02:03:44,360 --> 02:03:41,250
what I was seeing so when I say that

2441
02:03:47,780 --> 02:03:44,370
I've had a fascination I'm talking about

2442
02:03:52,810 --> 02:03:47,790
from when I was was a kid and the whole

2443
02:03:56,930 --> 02:03:52,820
Apollo program just I I just watched

2444
02:04:00,890 --> 02:03:56,940
every launch I can remember when Chafee

2445
02:04:03,770 --> 02:04:00,900
white and Grissom died in the Apollo one

2446
02:04:06,620 --> 02:04:03,780
fire I mean all that stuff just stuck

2447
02:04:08,000 --> 02:04:06,630
with me and the day that we in fact

2448
02:04:11,700 --> 02:04:08,010
landed on the moon

2449
02:04:14,580 --> 02:04:11,710
July 20th 1969

2450
02:04:17,729 --> 02:04:14,590
I can remember I was just like I was

2451
02:04:21,570 --> 02:04:17,739
drifting through the clouds okay I was

2452
02:04:26,400 --> 02:04:21,580
so excited now with all that being said

2453
02:04:31,500 --> 02:04:26,410
it wasn't until the early 90s that I

2454
02:04:36,000 --> 02:04:31,510
really began to to take a close look and

2455
02:04:39,330 --> 02:04:36,010
what may in fact have been going on

2456
02:04:42,959 --> 02:04:39,340
behind the scenes now most people if

2457
02:04:44,940 --> 02:04:42,969
they have no knowledge or very little

2458
02:04:47,400 --> 02:04:44,950
knowledge about the Apollo program and

2459
02:04:52,200 --> 02:04:47,410
what we were doing and what was being

2460
02:04:55,020 --> 02:04:52,210
promised at the time may think that this

2461
02:04:58,800 --> 02:04:55,030
is going to sound like so much claptrap

2462
02:05:02,220 --> 02:04:58,810
but all you got to do is and you can do

2463
02:05:04,920 --> 02:05:02,230
a lot of it online do a little research

2464
02:05:06,300 --> 02:05:04,930
on this and and what I'm about to tell

2465
02:05:09,030 --> 02:05:06,310
you you're gonna see I'm telling you the

2466
02:05:13,709 --> 02:05:09,040
truth now what I started to say several

2467
02:05:17,610 --> 02:05:13,719
segments ago about one fellow we were

2468
02:05:20,550 --> 02:05:17,620
talking about people being vetted early

2469
02:05:22,800 --> 02:05:20,560
on back in Washington some of these

2470
02:05:26,100 --> 02:05:22,810
people that were trying to get

2471
02:05:29,760 --> 02:05:26,110
congressional investigations or hearings

2472
02:05:32,790 --> 02:05:29,770
being held on the subject of UFOs one of

2473
02:05:36,510 --> 02:05:32,800
those those folks that's a friend of

2474
02:05:39,840 --> 02:05:36,520
mine was invited by one of those groups

2475
02:05:43,709 --> 02:05:39,850
to go back there and later he left in

2476
02:05:46,440 --> 02:05:43,719
disgust and I don't want to identify him

2477
02:05:48,780 --> 02:05:46,450
right now I don't want to embarrass him

2478
02:05:52,830 --> 02:05:48,790
but he left and discussed when he told

2479
02:05:54,959 --> 02:05:52,840
me about all the frauds that he was

2480
02:05:57,229 --> 02:05:54,969
around at this thing and he didn't want

2481
02:06:00,990 --> 02:05:57,239
to be affiliated with that but this guy

2482
02:06:05,190 --> 02:06:01,000
had been an electronics technician in

2483
02:06:11,430 --> 02:06:05,200
the Air Force back in the 60s and it was

2484
02:06:14,280 --> 02:06:11,440
on about 66 or 67 when we and I say we

2485
02:06:18,300 --> 02:06:14,290
I'm talking about NASA was sending

2486
02:06:21,900 --> 02:06:18,310
several unmanned missions up to the moon

2487
02:06:24,060 --> 02:06:21,910
to photograph the moon now Eugene you

2488
02:06:27,090 --> 02:06:24,070
may know who I'm talking about

2489
02:06:30,120 --> 02:06:27,100
and I have written about him in UFO

2490
02:06:33,870 --> 02:06:30,130
magazine a number of years back in some

2491
02:06:37,260 --> 02:06:33,880
of our issues devoted to lunar phenomena

2492
02:06:40,500 --> 02:06:37,270
but this fellow was called over to

2493
02:06:42,600 --> 02:06:40,510
Langley to an Air Force a joint Air

2494
02:06:44,670 --> 02:06:42,610
Force Base there and it's close to

2495
02:06:48,120 --> 02:06:44,680
Langley so that should tell you who else

2496
02:06:51,660 --> 02:06:48,130
was involved when some of these

2497
02:06:57,330 --> 02:06:51,670
photographs were first being beamed back

2498
02:07:00,000 --> 02:06:57,340
to earth now as he told me and and I bet

2499
02:07:04,530 --> 02:07:00,010
at this and I also wrote it as he told

2500
02:07:07,380 --> 02:07:04,540
me one day his Air Force his office now

2501
02:07:10,050 --> 02:07:07,390
this guy had a security clearance

2502
02:07:13,920 --> 02:07:10,060
because a lot of the equipment that he

2503
02:07:16,620 --> 02:07:13,930
ended up working on was classified so he

2504
02:07:20,760 --> 02:07:16,630
had to had to have a security clearance

2505
02:07:23,550 --> 02:07:20,770
in order to work on it and one of their

2506
02:07:25,950 --> 02:07:23,560
printers that was receiving this

2507
02:07:30,180 --> 02:07:25,960
telemetry that was being beamed back

2508
02:07:32,640 --> 02:07:30,190
from the moon had broken down and he was

2509
02:07:34,710 --> 02:07:32,650
called up and he went over there and he

2510
02:07:37,140 --> 02:07:34,720
had to be vetted through I mean he had

2511
02:07:39,330 --> 02:07:37,150
to show his security identification and

2512
02:07:41,460 --> 02:07:39,340
the fact that he had a secret clearance

2513
02:07:43,320 --> 02:07:41,470
I believe and all that type of material

2514
02:07:46,380 --> 02:07:43,330
in order to get in there when he got

2515
02:07:50,160 --> 02:07:46,390
back to the room where this printer was

2516
02:07:52,980 --> 02:07:50,170
there was one lone Air Force he called

2517
02:07:54,930 --> 02:07:52,990
him a worker bee okay just some kid that

2518
02:07:56,430 --> 02:07:54,940
was sitting in there had to be there

2519
02:07:59,100 --> 02:07:56,440
everybody else had left because

2520
02:08:01,860 --> 02:07:59,110
everything shut down with the cessation

2521
02:08:03,390 --> 02:08:01,870
of this this printer so he was in there

2522
02:08:05,400 --> 02:08:03,400
and he was checking and he found out

2523
02:08:07,620 --> 02:08:05,410
there was a module or two that had to be

2524
02:08:09,480 --> 02:08:07,630
replaced and he said it was kind of

2525
02:08:12,000 --> 02:08:09,490
weird when I was in there down because

2526
02:08:15,000 --> 02:08:12,010
he said that I could tell that this

2527
02:08:17,190 --> 02:08:15,010
technician that had to be in there was

2528
02:08:19,080 --> 02:08:17,200
really troubled or something I said what

2529
02:08:20,280 --> 02:08:19,090
do you mean he was trouble he said well

2530
02:08:22,650 --> 02:08:20,290
I could just tell that there was

2531
02:08:24,260 --> 02:08:22,660
something off so he said we we talked

2532
02:08:26,880 --> 02:08:24,270
very little because this was a

2533
02:08:30,150 --> 02:08:26,890
classified area and we'll have to get

2534
02:08:32,640 --> 02:08:30,160
into this strange technician who or what

2535
02:08:35,580 --> 02:08:32,650
he might be Don Ecker joins us gene

2536
02:08:36,750 --> 02:08:35,590
Steinberg is the host Chris O'Brien is

2537
02:08:46,170 --> 02:08:36,760
the co-host

2538
02:08:48,270 --> 02:08:46,180
in the para cast graphic converter is

2539
02:08:51,000 --> 02:08:48,280
the image manipulation tool for the rest

2540
02:08:53,130 --> 02:08:51,010
of us it does not use any database you

2541
02:08:55,530 --> 02:08:53,140
get full control of all your files want

2542
02:08:57,690 --> 02:08:55,540
to view the images of a folder drag it

2543
02:08:59,760 --> 02:08:57,700
into graphic converter and a powerful

2544
02:09:01,860 --> 02:08:59,770
browser opens up to show your image

2545
02:09:03,780 --> 02:09:01,870
files you could use it for slideshows

2546
02:09:06,150 --> 02:09:03,790
you could use it to import images from

2547
02:09:08,100 --> 02:09:06,160
digital cameras or from scanners need to

2548
02:09:10,110 --> 02:09:08,110
do some image editing you can do that

2549
02:09:12,750 --> 02:09:10,120
too in graphic converter also print

2550
02:09:14,730 --> 02:09:12,760
catalogs convert from so many formats

2551
02:09:16,980 --> 02:09:14,740
I can't even list them download now to

2552
02:09:19,800 --> 02:09:16,990
see if graphic converter is good for you

2553
02:09:21,840 --> 02:09:19,810
like one and a half million other users

2554
02:09:24,000 --> 02:09:21,850
guess what you could save money when you

2555
02:09:25,980 --> 02:09:24,010
buy graphic converter use the coupon

2556
02:09:28,380 --> 02:09:25,990
code night I'll use the coupon code

2557
02:09:31,020 --> 02:09:28,390
night owl to get a special price for

2558
02:09:36,090 --> 02:09:31,030
graphic converter go to Lemke soft calm

2559
02:09:41,490 --> 02:09:36,100
mats LEM ke soft calm monkey soft calm

2560
02:09:43,710 --> 02:09:41,500
LEM ke soft calm local army navy surplus

2561
02:09:45,720 --> 02:09:43,720
stores are hard to find these days but

2562
02:09:48,570 --> 02:09:45,730
not military issue supplies they're

2563
02:09:51,060 --> 02:09:48,580
right here online at main military comm

2564
02:09:54,390 --> 02:09:51,070
that's right just like the state ma I

2565
02:09:56,640 --> 02:09:54,400
and II military comm we have everything

2566
02:09:58,830 --> 02:09:56,650
for true total preparedness main

2567
02:10:01,500 --> 02:09:58,840
military comm is not a typical website

2568
02:10:04,290 --> 02:10:01,510
it has much more than your old surplus

2569
02:10:07,020 --> 02:10:04,300
store quality military issue survival

2570
02:10:09,360 --> 02:10:07,030
gear like canteens mess kits utensils

2571
02:10:11,250 --> 02:10:09,370
gas masks filters and chemical suits

2572
02:10:13,650 --> 02:10:11,260
magnesium fire starting tools

2573
02:10:15,810 --> 02:10:13,660
strike-anywhere waterproof and storm

2574
02:10:18,900 --> 02:10:15,820
matches first aid kits splints

2575
02:10:21,630 --> 02:10:18,910
tourniquets parachute 550 cord military

2576
02:10:23,880 --> 02:10:21,640
manuals sandbags by the Bale and a huge

2577
02:10:26,910 --> 02:10:23,890
male assortment of vests and pouches for

2578
02:10:28,950 --> 02:10:26,920
every need call 207 nine eight nine six

2579
02:10:30,870 --> 02:10:28,960
seven eight three two oh seven nine

2580
02:10:34,530 --> 02:10:30,880
eight nine six seven eight three or

2581
02:10:37,590 --> 02:10:34,540
visit main military comm that's ma I and

2582
02:10:40,470 --> 02:10:37,600
II military calm the main name in

2583
02:10:42,750 --> 02:10:40,480
military supply if you drive for a

2584
02:10:45,780 --> 02:10:42,760
living you don't get paid to stop or

2585
02:10:47,180 --> 02:10:45,790
wait in line keep your wheels moving

2586
02:10:50,030 --> 02:10:47,190
with pre pass

2587
02:10:52,670 --> 02:10:50,040
bypass waystations flyby port of entry

2588
02:10:55,790 --> 02:10:52,680
facilities stay moving at highway speed

2589
02:11:01,459 --> 02:10:55,800
while the guy without free pass waits in

2590
02:11:05,479 --> 02:11:01,469
large save time save money call eight

2591
02:11:09,530 --> 02:11:05,489
eight eight 401 pass to try prepass free

2592
02:11:12,830 --> 02:11:09,540
that's eight eight eight 401 pass what's

2593
02:11:14,689 --> 02:11:12,840
cooking at price kitchen calm plenty low

2594
02:11:17,030 --> 02:11:14,699
prices on your favorite kitchen brand

2595
02:11:19,670 --> 02:11:17,040
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2596
02:11:22,310 --> 02:11:19,680
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2597
02:11:24,560 --> 02:11:22,320
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2598
02:11:26,750 --> 02:11:24,570
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2599
02:11:28,610 --> 02:11:26,760
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2600
02:11:31,910 --> 02:11:28,620
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2601
02:11:34,820 --> 02:11:31,920
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2602
02:11:37,040 --> 02:11:34,830
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2603
02:11:40,189 --> 02:11:37,050
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2604
02:11:42,860 --> 02:11:40,199
lifestyles convenient you've heard a lot

2605
02:11:45,260 --> 02:11:42,870
lately about zeolite but what is it and

2606
02:11:47,390 --> 02:11:45,270
why do you need it zeolite is a

2607
02:11:49,459 --> 02:11:47,400
beautiful complex crystalline structure

2608
02:11:52,430 --> 02:11:49,469
that encapsulates radiation and odors

2609
02:11:54,500 --> 02:11:52,440
Zeo King zeolite naturally eliminates

2610
02:11:56,660 --> 02:11:54,510
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2611
02:11:59,240 --> 02:11:56,670
up from x-rays security scanners or

2612
02:12:01,520 --> 02:11:59,250
nuclear fallout Zeo king flushes

2613
02:12:03,680 --> 02:12:01,530
environmental toxins absorbed from smoke

2614
02:12:05,750 --> 02:12:03,690
cell phones and chemicals so it

2615
02:12:08,360 --> 02:12:05,760
detoxifies heavy metals including

2616
02:12:10,100 --> 02:12:08,370
mercury lead and cadmium Zeo King

2617
02:12:12,800 --> 02:12:10,110
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2618
02:12:14,750 --> 02:12:12,810
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2619
02:12:17,180 --> 02:12:14,760
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2620
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parasites order your zeal Kings seal

2621
02:12:22,700 --> 02:12:19,739
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2622
02:12:24,560 --> 02:12:22,710
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2623
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2624
02:12:29,600 --> 02:12:27,270
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2625
02:12:32,600 --> 02:12:29,610
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2626
02:12:36,439 --> 02:12:32,610
seven nine or visit Zeo king.com

2627
02:12:39,010 --> 02:12:36,449
that's Zeo king.com for natural

2628
02:12:42,410 --> 02:12:39,020
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2629
02:12:45,090 --> 02:12:42,420
you tired of searching for great talk

2630
02:12:54,970 --> 02:12:45,100
radio helping you more importantly sir

2631
02:13:01,340 --> 02:12:56,870
this is ugly

2632
02:13:08,120 --> 02:13:01,350
you're listening to the podcast the gold

2633
02:13:10,430 --> 02:13:08,130
standard of paranormal radio we're back

2634
02:13:12,380 --> 02:13:10,440
another cliffhanger on the power cast

2635
02:13:12,830 --> 02:13:12,390
with gene and Chris our guest is Don

2636
02:13:16,939 --> 02:13:12,840
Ecker

2637
02:13:20,479 --> 02:13:16,949
so fixing the printer an old fashioned

2638
02:13:23,000 --> 02:13:20,489
impact printer and this guy's there

2639
02:13:26,240 --> 02:13:23,010
what's going on well no it wasn't an

2640
02:13:29,660 --> 02:13:26,250
impact printer okay what what what it

2641
02:13:35,330 --> 02:13:29,670
was doing and I'm sure you've probably

2642
02:13:38,120 --> 02:13:35,340
seen these some of these early lunar

2643
02:13:41,030 --> 02:13:38,130
photographs that look like they've been

2644
02:13:45,590 --> 02:13:41,040
put together from a mosaic they were

2645
02:13:50,810 --> 02:13:45,600
assembled from disparate photos right as

2646
02:13:54,350 --> 02:13:50,820
the as the probe was orbiting the moon

2647
02:13:56,660 --> 02:13:54,360
and it would scan and photograph okay so

2648
02:13:59,810 --> 02:13:56,670
this is almost like a fax machine yeah

2649
02:14:04,100 --> 02:13:59,820
it was sending these these lines of data

2650
02:14:06,410 --> 02:14:04,110
back to earth and this printer as it

2651
02:14:10,220 --> 02:14:06,420
would come in this printer was printing

2652
02:14:13,550 --> 02:14:10,230
out the photo from the data okay and

2653
02:14:15,860 --> 02:14:13,560
this is what what had broken down so

2654
02:14:18,200 --> 02:14:15,870
anyway to get back to the story so he

2655
02:14:20,060 --> 02:14:18,210
said this kid I could tell there was

2656
02:14:22,880 --> 02:14:20,070
something wrong with this guy it was a

2657
02:14:26,360 --> 02:14:22,890
young guy 20 21 years old and he said

2658
02:14:28,640 --> 02:14:26,370
suddenly and with with nothing on my

2659
02:14:32,120 --> 02:14:28,650
part I mean you know I was just doing my

2660
02:14:35,209 --> 02:14:32,130
thing he said suddenly this kid turned

2661
02:14:37,340 --> 02:14:35,219
to me and he said you know we found a

2662
02:14:39,860 --> 02:14:37,350
base in the moment and he said I looked

2663
02:14:42,320 --> 02:14:39,870
at him and I said what he said we found

2664
02:14:44,410 --> 02:14:42,330
a base on the moon he said whose because

2665
02:14:49,610 --> 02:14:44,420
you know he was automatically thinking

2666
02:14:52,250 --> 02:14:49,620
Russian Soviet Russian whatever and he

2667
02:14:55,189 --> 02:14:52,260
said the kid reached over and pulled out

2668
02:14:57,979 --> 02:14:55,199
a photograph and handed it to him and he

2669
02:15:01,220 --> 02:14:57,989
said I looked at it and he said suddenly

2670
02:15:03,260 --> 02:15:01,230
I was terrified and I said terrified why

2671
02:15:06,320 --> 02:15:03,270
he said if somebody would have walked in

2672
02:15:09,080 --> 02:15:06,330
there and saw that he said man we

2673
02:15:12,800 --> 02:15:09,090
probably all still be in in prison and I

2674
02:15:16,760 --> 02:15:12,810
said what what would you see he said I

2675
02:15:19,100 --> 02:15:16,770
saw what looked like buildings antenna

2676
02:15:19,640 --> 02:15:19,110
things you know and I said no wait a

2677
02:15:24,920 --> 02:15:19,650
minute

2678
02:15:26,990 --> 02:15:24,930
said on the far side of the Moon I said

2679
02:15:30,170 --> 02:15:27,000
you mean on the back of the moon

2680
02:15:33,320 --> 02:15:30,180
he said yeah so anyway he continued on

2681
02:15:34,580 --> 02:15:33,330
with his stuff and quite frankly

2682
02:15:37,580 --> 02:15:34,590
couldn't wait to get the hell out of

2683
02:15:40,100 --> 02:15:37,590
there after he got out and he went back

2684
02:15:43,780 --> 02:15:40,110
to his his base he said I sat there and

2685
02:15:48,440 --> 02:15:43,790
I thought about it for you know hours

2686
02:15:49,550 --> 02:15:48,450
about what I had seen and he said then

2687
02:15:52,310 --> 02:15:49,560
it hit me

2688
02:15:54,980 --> 02:15:52,320
oh they're gonna announce this they're

2689
02:15:57,770 --> 02:15:54,990
sure to announce it so for the next week

2690
02:15:59,720 --> 02:15:57,780
you know he was glued every time he got

2691
02:16:02,240 --> 02:15:59,730
around a radio expecting this

2692
02:16:04,970 --> 02:16:02,250
announcement well it never came out now

2693
02:16:09,560 --> 02:16:04,980
this this was a story now can I prove

2694
02:16:12,230 --> 02:16:09,570
that absolutely not but this was one of

2695
02:16:14,240 --> 02:16:12,240
the stories that really got me on to

2696
02:16:17,510 --> 02:16:14,250
this thing is is there anything there so

2697
02:16:20,240 --> 02:16:17,520
I started doing some research now I had

2698
02:16:23,690 --> 02:16:20,250
a guy back in the early days of my first

2699
02:16:30,160 --> 02:16:23,700
radio program that I became friends with

2700
02:16:34,850 --> 02:16:30,170
by the name of Jim Sylvan and Jim was a

2701
02:16:38,150 --> 02:16:34,860
longtime researcher into lunar phenomena

2702
02:16:44,470 --> 02:16:38,160
and he got put on the trail back in the

2703
02:16:48,050 --> 02:16:44,480
mid 1970s when he read a book that was

2704
02:16:50,990 --> 02:16:48,060
absolutely a blockbuster but then it was

2705
02:16:53,480 --> 02:16:51,000
gone almost as soon as it was published

2706
02:16:56,150 --> 02:16:53,490
by an author by the name of George

2707
02:16:59,390 --> 02:16:56,160
Leonard in the name of the book was

2708
02:17:04,070 --> 02:16:59,400
somebody else's on the moon now Leonard

2709
02:17:06,740 --> 02:17:04,080
had been a civilian scientist and at the

2710
02:17:09,680 --> 02:17:06,750
cessation of the Apollo program back in

2711
02:17:13,010 --> 02:17:09,690
72 after the last man mission had

2712
02:17:15,650 --> 02:17:13,020
several scientific friends that had

2713
02:17:17,540 --> 02:17:15,660
worked in NASA that were part of the

2714
02:17:20,750 --> 02:17:17,550
Apollo program

2715
02:17:23,360 --> 02:17:20,760
after you know they started telling him

2716
02:17:25,820 --> 02:17:23,370
some stories he went in there and

2717
02:17:28,790 --> 02:17:25,830
started getting legally of course all

2718
02:17:30,950 --> 02:17:28,800
legally a lot of photographs that he

2719
02:17:33,440 --> 02:17:30,960
could lay his hands on and began

2720
02:17:37,610 --> 02:17:33,450
assembling this research now this ended

2721
02:17:40,910 --> 02:17:37,620
up in about 76 with this book being

2722
02:17:43,400 --> 02:17:40,920
published now some of those photographs

2723
02:17:45,860 --> 02:17:43,410
are mind-blowing

2724
02:17:48,560 --> 02:17:45,870
have either of you guys by chance or

2725
02:17:51,020 --> 02:17:48,570
read that book got a copy actually okay

2726
02:17:54,020 --> 02:17:51,030
you so you've read it then you know you

2727
02:17:56,690 --> 02:17:54,030
know what Leonard yeah the Blair cuspids

2728
02:17:59,840 --> 02:17:56,700
and the whole idea of obelisks theirs

2729
02:18:02,060 --> 02:17:59,850
seems to be a system of Ovilus on the

2730
02:18:04,820 --> 02:18:02,070
moon which may correspond with obelisks

2731
02:18:06,590 --> 02:18:04,830
that are here on planet earth but that's

2732
02:18:09,710 --> 02:18:06,600
a whole nother that's a whole another

2733
02:18:13,100 --> 02:18:09,720
show but continued on yeah well at any

2734
02:18:14,660 --> 02:18:13,110
rate so Jim sent me just I mean just

2735
02:18:18,380 --> 02:18:14,670
gratis

2736
02:18:20,240 --> 02:18:18,390
a whole fistful of these photos and I

2737
02:18:23,630 --> 02:18:20,250
received them I started going through

2738
02:18:28,340 --> 02:18:23,640
them and I was intrigued and then I

2739
02:18:31,190 --> 02:18:28,350
invited him to come on UFOs tonight and

2740
02:18:34,730 --> 02:18:31,200
we ended up doing several shows about

2741
02:18:37,700 --> 02:18:34,740
this well this launched me on my quest

2742
02:18:40,520 --> 02:18:37,710
one of the first things I tracked down

2743
02:18:46,640 --> 02:18:40,530
and you can find this incidentally today

2744
02:18:54,920 --> 02:18:46,650
online is a NASA technical report it's

2745
02:18:58,340 --> 02:18:54,930
it's titled NASA TR r - 2 7 7 now this

2746
02:19:00,770 --> 02:18:58,350
was a report that was put together for

2747
02:19:04,640 --> 02:19:00,780
NASA by a group of academics that was

2748
02:19:08,650 --> 02:19:04,650
published in 1968 prior to the manned

2749
02:19:13,600 --> 02:19:08,660
landing on the moon now what it is is a

2750
02:19:17,420 --> 02:19:13,610
catalogue of reports of lunar events or

2751
02:19:22,610 --> 02:19:17,430
changes on the moon that was compiled

2752
02:19:27,380 --> 02:19:22,620
from astronomers globally going back to

2753
02:19:30,330 --> 02:19:27,390
the Year are you ready for this of 1540

2754
02:19:34,219 --> 02:19:30,340
all the way back to 15

2755
02:19:38,910 --> 02:19:34,229
40 and all the way forward to the late

2756
02:19:42,780 --> 02:19:38,920
60s this is by no means a complete

2757
02:19:45,509 --> 02:19:42,790
report because I am familiar with a

2758
02:19:48,960 --> 02:19:45,519
number of incidents like with the

2759
02:19:53,490 --> 02:19:48,970
British Royal astronomy Society back in

2760
02:19:57,450 --> 02:19:53,500
the mid to latter 19th century okay that

2761
02:20:00,660 --> 02:19:57,460
for three years was following groupings

2762
02:20:04,740 --> 02:20:00,670
of light that were on the the lunar

2763
02:20:09,030 --> 02:20:04,750
surface that would flare up be there for

2764
02:20:12,679 --> 02:20:09,040
a while shut off and then move and they

2765
02:20:17,790 --> 02:20:12,689
literally tracked these these lights but

2766
02:20:21,270 --> 02:20:17,800
the stuff that is in this report okay

2767
02:20:26,370 --> 02:20:21,280
going all the way back to 1540 run the

2768
02:20:28,050 --> 02:20:26,380
gamut from simple lights showing up now

2769
02:20:30,030 --> 02:20:28,060
this incidentally is all from

2770
02:20:33,900 --> 02:20:30,040
professional professional astronomers

2771
02:20:38,639 --> 02:20:33,910
from lights flickering to moving lunar

2772
02:20:40,770 --> 02:20:38,649
domes okay now when I started going

2773
02:20:45,780 --> 02:20:40,780
through this it suddenly became very

2774
02:20:48,450 --> 02:20:45,790
apparent to me that NASA was keeping a

2775
02:20:51,060 --> 02:20:48,460
close eye on what was happening on the

2776
02:20:56,099 --> 02:20:51,070
moon in preparation for the touchdown

2777
02:21:00,599 --> 02:20:56,109
of Apollo 11 now this is another little

2778
02:21:03,750 --> 02:21:00,609
known fact and boy did I catch a lot of

2779
02:21:08,250 --> 02:21:03,760
flak when I first announced this when I

2780
02:21:11,880 --> 02:21:08,260
discovered this are you guys aware that

2781
02:21:15,240 --> 02:21:11,890
when the first manned missions went to

2782
02:21:19,219 --> 02:21:15,250
the moon that they were carrying weapons

2783
02:21:22,020 --> 02:21:19,229
they had they had 45 caliber pistols

2784
02:21:24,690 --> 02:21:22,030
they want to shoot the moon men they saw

2785
02:21:27,330 --> 02:21:24,700
radar men from the moon the famous movie

2786
02:21:31,010 --> 02:21:27,340
serial from the 1950s remember that I

2787
02:21:34,620 --> 02:21:31,020
think that's the one where Leonard Nimoy

2788
02:21:39,630 --> 02:21:34,630
one of his first early roles he plays an

2789
02:21:41,280 --> 02:21:39,640
alien from the moon so in other words

2790
02:21:43,150 --> 02:21:41,290
you think they wanted to shoot Leonard

2791
02:21:50,020 --> 02:21:43,160
Nimoy is that what you're telling me

2792
02:21:52,420 --> 02:21:50,030
that's nautical well okay I had no idea

2793
02:21:57,670 --> 02:21:52,430
done that's fascinating they had actual

2794
02:21:59,710 --> 02:21:57,680
like a 45 handgun yep yep yep I mean

2795
02:22:01,990 --> 02:21:59,720
what are the list the characteristics of

2796
02:22:05,950 --> 02:22:02,000
a 45 slug going through a vacuum of

2797
02:22:08,920 --> 02:22:05,960
space I mean it is a chemical reaction

2798
02:22:11,320 --> 02:22:08,930
again shot is a chemical reaction right

2799
02:22:13,719 --> 02:22:11,330
but boy I'll tell you it probably has

2800
02:22:16,330 --> 02:22:13,729
some punch up there oh yeah I'm sure it

2801
02:22:18,670 --> 02:22:16,340
did now let's get into more of these

2802
02:22:20,620 --> 02:22:18,680
mysteries in our final segment we have

2803
02:22:22,540 --> 02:22:20,630
Don Ecker earlier talking about the

2804
02:22:25,570 --> 02:22:22,550
fakes and frauds in UFO research now

2805
02:22:30,760 --> 02:22:25,580
focusing on incredible lunar mysteries

2806
02:22:32,290 --> 02:22:30,770
incredible they are were the lunar

2807
02:22:35,590 --> 02:22:32,300
explorers and the Apollo

2808
02:22:37,929 --> 02:22:35,600
locked and loaded I'm Jean Steinberg the

2809
02:22:46,330 --> 02:22:37,939
co-host is Chris O'Brien you're in the

2810
02:22:48,580 --> 02:22:46,340
para cast so here's what happened I was

2811
02:22:51,100 --> 02:22:48,590
placing an order online the site went

2812
02:22:53,200 --> 02:22:51,110
down it just stopped responding it took

2813
02:22:54,850 --> 02:22:53,210
hours before it returned but I'd already

2814
02:22:56,590 --> 02:22:54,860
placed the order with another company if

2815
02:22:58,420 --> 02:22:56,600
your site goes down you could lose

2816
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business and if you have a business or

2817
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personal site you'll want to know it's

2818
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easy to run and it will stay online at

2819
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iWeb your site is hosted on one of the

2820
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most reliable networks in the world

2821
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2822
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2823
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2824
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2825
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2827
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2828
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2829
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2831
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I bled pressure clogged arteries or

2832
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2833
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2834
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for approximately two weeks I've had an

2835
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2836
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years with over-the-counter stuff not

2837
02:24:02,840 --> 02:24:00,029
working at all I had very poor hearing

2838
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due to this earwax build-up well after 2

2839
02:24:07,279 --> 02:24:04,859
weeks of taking heart and body extract

2840
02:24:09,979 --> 02:24:07,289
my earwax build-up almost completely

2841
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cleared up could this be the effect of

2842
02:24:14,420 --> 02:24:11,909
better body circulation heart and body

2843
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2844
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2845
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2846
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2847
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2848
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2849
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2852
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2854
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2855
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2856
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2859
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2860
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2861
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2864
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2865
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2866
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wondered why banks stock brokers

2867
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investment advisors won't talk about

2868
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2869
02:25:20,359 --> 02:25:18,600
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2870
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recognize the value of gold for your

2871
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2872
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2873
02:25:29,929 --> 02:25:26,249
you would like to have gold for your

2874
02:25:31,789 --> 02:25:29,939
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2875
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2876
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2877
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2878
02:26:07,460 --> 02:26:05,699
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2879
02:26:08,011 --> 02:26:07,470
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2880
02:26:09,780 --> 02:26:08,021
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2881
02:26:11,940 --> 02:26:09,790
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2882
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2883
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2884
02:26:17,161 --> 02:26:15,251
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2885
02:26:19,291 --> 02:26:17,171
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2886
02:26:21,270 --> 02:26:19,301
of a perky light the burka guy is also

2887
02:26:24,121 --> 02:26:21,280
offering a set of fluoride and arsenic

2888
02:26:25,860 --> 02:26:24,131
filters for only $39.99 that's over 30

2889
02:26:27,690 --> 02:26:25,870
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2890
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2891
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2892
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2893
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2894
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2895
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2896
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2897
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2898
02:27:08,460 --> 02:27:00,810
this is the wrong Park laughter in other

2899
02:27:12,000 --> 02:27:08,470
books so was it Lock and Load or what

2900
02:27:14,910 --> 02:27:12,010
for our first lunar explorers Don Ecker

2901
02:27:17,670 --> 02:27:14,920
is talking about the fact that carried

2902
02:27:19,050 --> 02:27:17,680
45s with him I'm Jean Steinberg the

2903
02:27:21,480 --> 02:27:19,060
co-host is Chris O'Brien

2904
02:27:23,820 --> 02:27:21,490
I'm the para cast this is our final

2905
02:27:28,020 --> 02:27:23,830
segment Don so let's start summarizing

2906
02:27:30,240 --> 02:27:28,030
it okay so anyway when when I am when I

2907
02:27:33,719 --> 02:27:30,250
made that announcement boy did I get

2908
02:27:37,440 --> 02:27:33,729
some some flack about that people did

2909
02:27:40,110 --> 02:27:37,450
not believe it but I had called and had

2910
02:27:42,690 --> 02:27:40,120
had talked the NASA spokesperson and

2911
02:27:45,000 --> 02:27:42,700
they admitted readily admitted that yes

2912
02:27:48,060 --> 02:27:45,010
they were armed well why were they armed

2913
02:27:51,330 --> 02:27:48,070
well they were armed because when they

2914
02:27:53,130 --> 02:27:51,340
returned earth we were afraid that you

2915
02:27:56,250 --> 02:27:53,140
know if something happened and they

2916
02:27:59,850 --> 02:27:56,260
landed in a jungle or something they

2917
02:28:00,510 --> 02:27:59,860
should have a gun so nice to be here not

2918
02:28:02,219 --> 02:28:00,520
for the moment

2919
02:28:04,350 --> 02:28:02,229
I sit in a wait a minute wait a minute

2920
02:28:07,230 --> 02:28:04,360
wait a minute yeah exactly wait a minute

2921
02:28:11,460 --> 02:28:07,240
did the guys on the lunar lander have

2922
02:28:16,110 --> 02:28:11,470
handguns or handguns in the lunar module

2923
02:28:18,900 --> 02:28:16,120
well now that okay all right yes dad I

2924
02:28:20,219 --> 02:28:18,910
am NOT I don't I can't speak with

2925
02:28:22,710 --> 02:28:20,229
authority I'm not that would be an

2926
02:28:25,200 --> 02:28:22,720
interesting thing to find out but but

2927
02:28:26,340 --> 02:28:25,210
they admitted that yes they did they

2928
02:28:30,360 --> 02:28:26,350
said but wait a minute

2929
02:28:34,670 --> 02:28:30,370
now the Apollo program they all landed

2930
02:28:36,260 --> 02:28:34,680
in the ocean 75% of the of the planet is

2931
02:28:38,880 --> 02:28:36,270
is water

2932
02:28:42,000 --> 02:28:38,890
75 or more percent of the planet is

2933
02:28:44,160 --> 02:28:42,010
water okay all those those crab they

2934
02:28:47,640 --> 02:28:44,170
weren't landing a shuttle back in those

2935
02:28:49,560 --> 02:28:47,650
days it was all water landing so how

2936
02:28:51,180 --> 02:28:49,570
would they end up in the jungle okay

2937
02:28:54,030 --> 02:28:51,190
well that that's where they got they got

2938
02:28:55,950 --> 02:28:54,040
a little confusing for me I'm just a

2939
02:29:02,070 --> 02:28:55,960
simple guy they're not gonna bungle in

2940
02:29:04,860 --> 02:29:02,080
the jungle to land in New Guinea and

2941
02:29:09,090 --> 02:29:04,870
start a new cargo cult yeah that could

2942
02:29:12,719 --> 02:29:09,100
be but but anyway so I began for action

2943
02:29:15,240 --> 02:29:12,729
for years doing some very in-depth

2944
02:29:19,260 --> 02:29:15,250
research on this when my intent at that

2945
02:29:21,000 --> 02:29:19,270
point was to to write a book on some of

2946
02:29:23,729 --> 02:29:21,010
these loner phenomenas now I realize

2947
02:29:28,080 --> 02:29:23,739
we're getting very short on time but one

2948
02:29:32,070 --> 02:29:28,090
of the most fascinating programs that I

2949
02:29:35,460 --> 02:29:32,080
ever conducted an interview was with a

2950
02:29:39,330 --> 02:29:35,470
fellow by the name of Vito Sakaki and

2951
02:29:42,120 --> 02:29:39,340
incidentally that that program with Vito

2952
02:29:46,170 --> 02:29:42,130
is available upon the dark matters forum

2953
02:29:49,260 --> 02:29:46,180
in the para cast as well as in my

2954
02:29:52,800 --> 02:29:49,270
archives if you go up to dark matters of

2955
02:29:56,700 --> 02:29:52,810
radio.com go into the DMR archives that

2956
02:30:00,750 --> 02:29:56,710
program is also there now Sakaki was and

2957
02:30:05,000 --> 02:30:00,760
still is a petrochemical engineer and he

2958
02:30:07,679 --> 02:30:05,010
had a fascinating fascinating story that

2959
02:30:13,679 --> 02:30:07,689
had happened to him

2960
02:30:17,219 --> 02:30:13,689
back around 1979 when his company made

2961
02:30:21,000 --> 02:30:17,229
him available to escort a company that

2962
02:30:24,389 --> 02:30:21,010
they worked with an American but who had

2963
02:30:28,229 --> 02:30:24,399
been working down in Venezuela come up

2964
02:30:31,019 --> 02:30:28,239
for a couple of weeks on business and

2965
02:30:32,969 --> 02:30:31,029
they made vito available for this guy

2966
02:30:36,479 --> 02:30:32,979
one of the things this guy wanted to do

2967
02:30:41,609 --> 02:30:36,489
was to go over to NASA to see the moon

2968
02:30:43,500 --> 02:30:41,619
photos okay and lo and behold when he

2969
02:30:46,290 --> 02:30:43,510
first got there he pulled out of his

2970
02:30:49,170 --> 02:30:46,300
pocket a copy of Leonard's book somebody

2971
02:30:52,019 --> 02:30:49,180
else's on the moon and he said now Vito

2972
02:30:53,130 --> 02:30:52,029
he said before I tell you anything he

2973
02:30:55,979 --> 02:30:53,140
said I want you to take this home

2974
02:30:58,050 --> 02:30:55,989
tonight he said and read this or a good

2975
02:31:01,530 --> 02:30:58,060
chunk of it tonight and then I'll talk

2976
02:31:04,639 --> 02:31:01,540
about it with you tomorrow well that was

2977
02:31:08,939 --> 02:31:04,649
the start of a couple of week Odyssey of

2978
02:31:12,719 --> 02:31:08,949
how NASA reacted NASA being the most

2979
02:31:14,670 --> 02:31:12,729
public open government agency there is

2980
02:31:17,040 --> 02:31:14,680
right you remember back in the days when

2981
02:31:19,609 --> 02:31:17,050
that was always being touted about NASA

2982
02:31:24,289 --> 02:31:19,619
the most open agency

2983
02:31:28,729 --> 02:31:24,299
what happened when the taxpayers came to

2984
02:31:31,459 --> 02:31:28,739
NASA to see these taxpayer photos okay

2985
02:31:34,099 --> 02:31:31,469
that they took on my buck when they went

2986
02:31:37,309 --> 02:31:34,109
to the moon now the bottom line of this

2987
02:31:40,129 --> 02:31:37,319
story is when they finally after a

2988
02:31:42,139 --> 02:31:40,139
series of misadventures honest to god I

2989
02:31:44,869 --> 02:31:42,149
didn't know whether to cry during that

2990
02:31:47,479 --> 02:31:44,879
interview or laugh I and I did a little

2991
02:31:49,429 --> 02:31:47,489
both actually and you guys I'm sure it

2992
02:31:51,260 --> 02:31:49,439
both heard that show right that's not

2993
02:31:53,149 --> 02:31:51,270
but boy I tell you done you got me I'm

2994
02:31:55,189 --> 02:31:53,159
gonna go and check it out right away no

2995
02:31:58,219 --> 02:31:55,199
I haven't this is fascinating

2996
02:32:00,619 --> 02:31:58,229
yeah well this this this was this was

2997
02:32:03,379 --> 02:32:00,629
one of the most memorable radio

2998
02:32:05,449 --> 02:32:03,389
interviews and I've been now with all

2999
02:32:08,569 --> 02:32:05,459
these years later I probably done well

3000
02:32:10,639 --> 02:32:08,579
over a thousand either hosting or being

3001
02:32:14,989 --> 02:32:10,649
interviewed or whatever but this was the

3002
02:32:18,889 --> 02:32:14,999
most memorable show ever and what they

3003
02:32:21,010 --> 02:32:18,899
discovered coincided or what he told me

3004
02:32:24,229 --> 02:32:21,020
they discovered I wasn't there

3005
02:32:27,590 --> 02:32:24,239
coincided with later what I discovered

3006
02:32:30,559 --> 02:32:27,600
now I have a photograph that I've been

3007
02:32:34,090 --> 02:32:30,569
holding now for a number of years that

3008
02:32:37,969 --> 02:32:34,100
is one of the most astounding

3009
02:32:41,989 --> 02:32:37,979
photographs I have ever seen it came

3010
02:32:44,749 --> 02:32:41,999
from NASA it was part of one of these

3011
02:32:48,260 --> 02:32:44,759
unmanned lunar probes that went and

3012
02:32:52,489 --> 02:32:48,270
photographed the moon and it shows what

3013
02:32:55,629 --> 02:32:52,499
can only and I mean only be an

3014
02:32:59,300 --> 02:32:55,639
artificial construction that is

3015
02:33:02,479 --> 02:32:59,310
protruding through a crater and you can

3016
02:33:06,919 --> 02:33:02,489
follow it going over a cliff what

3017
02:33:11,539 --> 02:33:06,929
appears to be an artificial pipe almost

3018
02:33:15,499 --> 02:33:11,549
like a pipeline now I have not let this

3019
02:33:18,679 --> 02:33:15,509
thing out in in any venue I've been

3020
02:33:22,159 --> 02:33:18,689
trying to hold this back for just the

3021
02:33:25,010 --> 02:33:22,169
right venue several years ago I was

3022
02:33:28,999 --> 02:33:25,020
working with a guy a TV producer who I

3023
02:33:32,959 --> 02:33:29,009
thought was pretty serious about doing

3024
02:33:36,489 --> 02:33:32,969
this and they put together a a proposal

3025
02:33:39,279 --> 02:33:36,499
with I might add some fairly

3026
02:33:42,879 --> 02:33:39,289
high-profile people in the Hollywood

3027
02:33:45,800 --> 02:33:42,889
industry out here media industry that

3028
02:33:49,519 --> 02:33:45,810
unfortunately came to naught now I I had

3029
02:33:52,399 --> 02:33:49,529
several hundred hours of working with

3030
02:33:54,619 --> 02:33:52,409
these guys all unpaid I might add of

3031
02:33:57,739 --> 02:33:54,629
course that's how it works in Hollywood

3032
02:34:00,319 --> 02:33:57,749
yeah all unpaid sure with the promise of

3033
02:34:02,719 --> 02:34:00,329
a payoff at the end which never happened

3034
02:34:04,789 --> 02:34:02,729
but another promise it always happens in

3035
02:34:08,659 --> 02:34:04,799
Hollywood I've been around that block

3036
02:34:12,939 --> 02:34:08,669
now a few times but this is an

3037
02:34:17,119 --> 02:34:12,949
absolutely astounding mystery and and

3038
02:34:20,239 --> 02:34:17,129
suddenly after six missions that that

3039
02:34:23,090 --> 02:34:20,249
successfully landed on the moon bayens

3040
02:34:25,579 --> 02:34:23,100
of dollars spent the Russians having

3041
02:34:27,439 --> 02:34:25,589
spent billions of rubles and they never

3042
02:34:29,510 --> 02:34:27,449
even got there okay

3043
02:34:33,079 --> 02:34:29,520
the Russians never even got there

3044
02:34:34,669 --> 02:34:33,089
suddenly we turn our back on it and say

3045
02:34:38,809 --> 02:34:34,679
hey that's it we're done

3046
02:34:41,840 --> 02:34:38,819
oh really why I mean we we spent money

3047
02:34:44,959 --> 02:34:41,850
we spent lives way what do you think

3048
02:34:47,479 --> 02:34:44,969
that is done back to genes question have

3049
02:34:51,499 --> 02:34:47,489
we been warned off do you think I think

3050
02:34:53,329 --> 02:34:51,509
it's very possible that hey look for

3051
02:34:56,479 --> 02:34:53,339
what it's worth I am convinced that

3052
02:34:59,719 --> 02:34:56,489
there is some type of operational

3053
02:35:02,629 --> 02:34:59,729
facility their bottom line is I think

3054
02:35:06,139 --> 02:35:02,639
yes it's very conceivable they in fact

3055
02:35:08,989 --> 02:35:06,149
were warned off very interesting how

3056
02:35:13,069 --> 02:35:08,999
about that was it the Clementine probe

3057
02:35:15,199 --> 02:35:13,079
that was able to record the acoustic

3058
02:35:19,459 --> 02:35:15,209
signature I think of a meteorite that

3059
02:35:22,219 --> 02:35:19,469
hit the moon you know the Clementine now

3060
02:35:25,699 --> 02:35:22,229
that that is absolutely just for an

3061
02:35:28,869 --> 02:35:25,709
entire program in itself I am personal

3062
02:35:31,609 --> 02:35:28,879
friends with the guy that was the

3063
02:35:35,449 --> 02:35:31,619
administrative assistant to the director

3064
02:35:38,090 --> 02:35:35,459
of Clementine now think about this just

3065
02:35:40,279 --> 02:35:38,100
let me let's finish the program with

3066
02:35:42,810 --> 02:35:40,289
this thought okay

3067
02:35:45,930 --> 02:35:42,820
they went to the bone went

3068
02:35:48,780 --> 02:35:45,940
to the moon roughly dad 20 years after

3069
02:35:52,230 --> 02:35:48,790
we left the moon they went back and

3070
02:35:56,041 --> 02:35:52,240
completely rephotographed the moon

3071
02:36:00,390 --> 02:35:56,051
unmanned probe ok took several million

3072
02:36:04,350 --> 02:36:00,400
pictures completely rephotographed the

3073
02:36:07,881 --> 02:36:04,360
moon and most of those have never been

3074
02:36:11,850 --> 02:36:07,891
released and it was gentleman not NASA

3075
02:36:13,560 --> 02:36:11,860
that went back to the moon no I'll tell

3076
02:36:15,780 --> 02:36:13,570
you what that's the cliffhanger for the

3077
02:36:17,761 --> 02:36:15,790
next episode all right we'll have to do

3078
02:36:20,011 --> 02:36:17,771
another show about lunar mysteries with

3079
02:36:21,841 --> 02:36:20,021
Don Ecker Don tell our listeners where

3080
02:36:25,020 --> 02:36:21,851
we can find more of the things that

3081
02:36:28,261 --> 02:36:25,030
you're up to well they can go to the

3082
02:36:30,961 --> 02:36:28,271
dark matters radio forum on the para

3083
02:36:35,160 --> 02:36:30,971
cast or they can come to the dark

3084
02:36:38,011 --> 02:36:35,170
matters radio.com blog site of mine and

3085
02:36:40,860 --> 02:36:38,021
on the forums it's forum dot the para

3086
02:36:43,830 --> 02:36:40,870
cast comm Chris O'Brien where do we find

3087
02:36:46,020 --> 02:36:43,840
more of your stuff right here every

3088
02:36:49,230 --> 02:36:46,030
Sunday and I'm also a moderator on the

3089
02:36:52,320 --> 02:36:49,240
podcast forum that's forum dr. Barrick

3090
02:36:55,501 --> 02:36:52,330
ascom and I have a website our estranged

3091
02:36:57,030 --> 02:36:55,511
planet comm Don Ecker thank you so much

3092
02:37:10,660 --> 02:36:57,040
for joining us this week on the power

3093
02:37:17,210 --> 02:37:14,179
the para cast featuring Jean Steinberg

3094
02:37:20,050 --> 02:37:17,220
and Christopher O'Brien is a copyrighted

3095
02:37:23,990 --> 02:37:20,060
presentation of making the impossible